[WoW] MP5 On Enhancement Gear

[Dyscord]

I think they should keep "useless" stats on pvp armor, personally. Even as a druid, I have some major problems with the S3 feral set.


Its better than the T6 feral set.

Its the ultimate blend of tanking and dps. Because the way feral tanking mechanics work, about the only thing you need to do is get uncritable. Since we can't block/parry, +defense isn't nearly as useful as it is for a warrior. Also, T6 doesn't have a shred of +defense on it. So you have to painfully socket everything you own to get +defense. Also T6 has no +hit on it. So you have to painfully socket to get +hit.

S3 doesn't suffer from this. Its far easier to get uncritable through resiliance, and we don't lose out on block/parry like our plate friends do. Also S3 has +hit already on it. And its definately not lacking in any str/agi. And lord knows its got stamina out the ass. The only downside is you won't be armor capped... which in my opinion is a small price to pay since you'll probably be around 73.5-74% mitigation anyway.

By removing the +healing off the set, you've turned it into a S3 weapon. Super desirable for raiders (if not better than what i can get raiding). And since its all fucking wellfare epics... and the argument goes from there. And since you've all heard the welfare arguments, I'll just cut that from this discussion.





Oh yes, and something about AV. We have to argue something about AV.

[mek]

Originally Posted by Szlia

I am not in touch with WoW stuff anymore but what are you saying exactly? "We are very good with our ill designed armor, so please fix or armor so we can be overpowered." ? Huh?

Thanks for contributing.


Enhancement MP5 is such a total joke now, it's like if warriors still had int and spi on their gear. Hopefully blizzard pays attention to what real enhancement shamans wear atm (mostly rogue leather) and itemizes better next expansion.

[Sithray]

Originally Posted by Szlia

I am not in touch with WoW stuff anymore but what are you saying exactly? "We are very good with our ill designed armor, so please fix or armor so we can be overpowered." ? Huh?

Actually no. Most enhancement shaman take leather items from Rog's/Druids to fill on the slots that suck. I doubt you will find an enhancement shaman in full t6. If you do, I doubt they are in the top 5 on DPS, probably top 15. The ones who actually compete with the purde DPS probably have mostly mix'n'match leather and mail in an end game situation.

What we want, is for our intended mail armor to benefit as much as the leather intended for other classes. It wouldn't make us overpowered, it would just make us wear the armor we were meant to wear.

[Antoine]

Like I said, every set has dumb stats on it. Mages have spirit on their t6, my t6 gloves have more stam than my s3 gloves (warlock), etc. Maybe it's not as drastic as your mp5, but it's not an enhancement issue alone.

[The Ancient]

Wow, I misread. You were talking about primarily about PvP sets. A whopping 17 mp5 wasted. QQ more.

[Sithray]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Wow, I misread. You were talking about primarily about PvP sets. A whopping 17 mp5 wasted. QQ more.

No, I just used it as an example. The T6 Enhancement set has more MP5 than the T6 Elemental set. The T6 set also has more MP5 than the S3 Linked set. The T6 Enhancement set has 35 MP5. That is 87.5 stat points WASTED.

The reason I am bringing up the PvP set specifically, is because this issue was brought up before S3 gear ever existed. When we saw all the MP5 on the S3 gear, was said "WTF? Why would you do it again?!" yet it still made it's way to live with 17 MP5.

And again 1 MP5 is 2.5 stat points, or 2.5 Str which = 5 AP. 17 MP5 is the equivelant of taking away 82 Attack Power from our S3 gear, or ~180 attack power from our T6. You can convert that into crit/hit etc etc whatever you want to do. The point is it is a shitload of another stat we actually need.

[The Ancient]

I'd be more upset over the t6 2 piece bonus than the 35 mp5 it has if that's the case.

Also:

And again 1 MP5 is 2.5 stat points, or 2.5 Str which = 5 AP. 17 MP5 is the equivelant of taking away 82 Attack Power from our S3 gear, or ~180 attack power from our T6.

I believe this math applies to gear that has 0 str to begin with. When you've got 157 Str or whatever already on your gear, 2.5 "stat points" buys you a lot less.

[Sithray]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

I'd be more upset over the t6 2 piece bonus than the 35 mp5 it has if that's the case.

Actually, we are more upset with the loss of constant DPS. The 2 piece bonus was just another kick in the nuts. But the 4 piece makes up for it. But you would be hard pressed to find a shaman in full t6, even if they have access to it.

Originally Posted by The Ancient

I belief this math applies to gear that has 0 str to begin with. When you've got 58 Str or whatever, 2.5 "stat points" buys you a lot less.

No, a stat point is a stat point...period.

if an item has 25 str on it and 5 MP5, that MP5 could be converted into strength and that item would have ~37 Str on it.

If an item has 100 Str that is 100 Stat points.

Unless I am misunderstading what you are saying.

[MrGraham]

Please convert the int off of warlock gear too?

Stats are not ideal for any class...

[Sithray]

Originally Posted by MrGraham

Please convert the int off of warlock gear too?

Stats are not ideal for any class...

I think you were trying to be sarcastic, so I am going to reply just in case.

You CAN'T show me a set of S3 or T6 for another class that has 80+ wasted stat points. You might be able to show me 5-10 points at most...but 80+?? Enhancement Shaman are unique to this super awesome gift.

I don't know anything about warlocks since I don't play one, so I am not going to comment on if you actually need int or not.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Sithray

No, a stat point is a stat point...period.

if an item has 25 str on it and 5 MP5, that MP5 could be converted into strength and that item would have ~37 Str on it.

If an item has 100 Str that is 100 Stat points.

Unless I am misunderstading what you are saying.

The cost to add a stat to a piece of gear goes up based on how much of that stat the item already has. I believe it's an exponential relationship, but I'm not feeling mathy enough to play with it that much. Point is going from 50->60 STR "costs" more of an item's "budget" than going from 0->10. Your calculation is incorrect because it assumes a baseline of 0 for STR.

Edit: I mathed it out after all. If you took away all the Mp5 from the Shaman gear S3 you could get 14 more strength.

Here's the formula -
[(157)^1.5+(17*2.5)^1.5]^2/3 = [(x-157)^1.5]^2/3

Solving for x yields 14.

[Sithray]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

The cost to add a stat to a piece of gear goes up based on how much of that stat the item already has. I believe it's an exponential relationship, but I'm not feeling mathy enough to play with it that much. Point is going from 50->60 STR "costs" more of an item's "budget" than going from 0->10. Your calculation is incorrect because it assumes a baseline of 0 for STR.

Formulas:Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

I think you are mistaken. If what you say is true the item levels would not go up the way they do. Right now item levels go up in a linear manner with standard gain between stat points and the item level.

For example T4 armor has an item level of 120 with x amount of stat points. Those stat points are the same across the board.

T5 is an ilvl of 133 and T6 is an ilvl of 146.

edit: I did see where you got mathy, but where did you get your numbers from?

[Horse]

Really I'm more concerned with my own knowledge of the game, not you looking like a retard but while I agree that there is not a linear stat valuation, it is exponential:

(stat*stat_val)^1.5

That is, as you get more of a stat it gets more expensive.

so if 1 = 2.5
1 point would eat up ~4 points of budget
17 would eat up ~278 points of budget




...what sithray is talking about is THE PART INSIDE THE PARENTHESIS.

17 points of MP5 = 17*2.5 = 42.5
X points of STR = X*1= 42.5

42.5 points of STR = 17 points of M/5, etc.

[Antoine]

Originally Posted by Sithray

I think you were trying to be sarcastic, so I am going to reply just in case.

You CAN'T show me a set of S3 or T6 for another class that has 80+ wasted stat points. You might be able to show me 5-10 points at most...but 80+?? Enhancement Shaman are unique to this super awesome gift.

I don't know anything about warlocks since I don't play one, so I am not going to comment on if you actually need int or not.

Warlock t6 has 60 more stam than yours... that's a lot of wasted item points that do nothing for dps

[Brando]

The Ancient is correct, in taking away those 80mp5 stat points you would get no where near the same amount of STR added to your items because of the amount of STR already on the item. Points for an individual stat and ilvl do not increase linearly in a lock step fashion, just the amount of overall points available.