[WoW] Dug their own grave?

[Dracoleech]

Does anyone else see the same mistakes EQ made, is being made by Blizzard today? I am talking about item stat inflation and increasing level cap making all old content obsolete. If they had kept the level cap the same WoW could seemingly go on forever for players. The only reason I don't think WoW will die is solely because there is no competition for them now neither is there in the scope of the future. Does anyone else feel the same? Increasing the level cap gives me a sense that I don't even want to play the game until they done doing it.

[Gnome Eater]

No, because unlike EQ, WoW has a gear reset button with every new expansion that guarantees that new players can just level to the max cap, run a few instances and heroics and be ready to raid. In EQ, my mage that has cutting edge raid gear from about 2 years ago still has better gear than someone who gears up only with groups, meaning you are stuck in a horrendous cycle of having to raid old content to gear up to standard.

[FulorianC]

WoW has done nearly as much mudflation in the last three years as EQ has in almost nine...

[woqqqa]

Not knowing the details of what SOE did to EQ back in the pre-WoW days I can't comment on that, but as a current WoW player I can tell you that there are quite a few people pissed at Blizzard for basically wanting to throw out more items and content while ignoring all the loose ends they've left in Azeroth (modern Hyjal, Gilneas, Uldum, Grim Batol). The new faster leveling to be introduced in 2.3 seems to reinforce the idea that they want to speed you past the old content. I'd say this causes a lot of trouble because for many people it was the old content and the feel of Azeroth that really got them interested in the game. Outland just isn't as interesting to a lot of us, can't say why. I agree that a game with more depth in various zones instead of a "level now" mentality would be a good idea, but it doesn't look as if Blizz is going in this direction.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Dracoleech

Does anyone else see the same mistakes EQ made, is being made by Blizzard today? I am talking about item stat inflation and increasing level cap making all old content obsolete. If they had kept the level cap the same WoW could seemingly go on forever for players. The only reason I don't think WoW will die is solely because there is no competition for them now neither is there in the scope of the future. Does anyone else feel the same? Increasing the level cap gives me a sense that I don't even want to play the game until they done doing it.

I don't get what you mean. The most mudflated EQ expansion was probably Kunark (level cap +10 and 1-group Kunark gear > planar raid gear) yet many cite Kunark as one of the best EQ expansions.

PS: I'd change the title of the thread, it is rickshaw-worthy overstatement for sure.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Not knowing the details of what SOE did to EQ back in the pre-WoW days I can't comment on that, but as a current WoW player I can tell you that there are quite a few people pissed at Blizzard for basically wanting to throw out more items and content while ignoring all the loose ends they've left in Azeroth (modern Hyjal, Gilneas, Uldum, Grim Batol). The new faster leveling to be introduced in 2.3 seems to reinforce the idea that they want to speed you past the old content. I'd say this causes a lot of trouble because for many people it was the old content and the feel of Azeroth that really got them interested in the game. Outland just isn't as interesting to a lot of us, can't say why. I agree that a game with more depth in various zones instead of a "level now" mentality would be a good idea, but it doesn't look as if Blizz is going in this direction.

Yeah, just like Deadwind Pass and Karazhan was forgotten.. oh wait.

They can always go back and add new stuff in those old areas. In fact, it's better that way because it allows them to use existing map areas instead of having to discover new continents all the damn time.

[Mahes]

EQ did not do it wrong, EQ actually did it right. WoW is doing it wrong. With EQ guilds had a clear progression path that needed to be taken, even if you were max level. EQ did not increase the level cap every expansion like Blizzard is doing. The power of items also did not increase nearly as much as they do in WoW.

In short, Blizzard is kind of shooting themselves in the foot doing what they are doing. Again this is why I hope WAR does well enough to provide competition, otherwise Blizzard can do whatever they want.

[Twobit Whore]

Gear resets are better for new players down the road. 10 expansions worth of progression that people need to go through 5 years after launch = bad. That's how I see it. Some people here are stuck on the idea that having that one clicky for 6 years is uber awesome, but WoW isn't like that. It's made so that people can start up, come back or just plain reroll and be capable at the top end within a couple months..

You may not like it, but it isn't wrong.

[Frax]

I am sure the usual release of a new high in WoW subscription numbers will back this thread up!

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Yeah, just like Deadwind Pass and Karazhan was forgotten.. oh wait.

They can always go back and add new stuff in those old areas. In fact, it's better that way because it allows them to use existing map areas instead of having to discover new continents all the damn time.

Deadwind and Kara are a pretty small part of the content. Outside of Kara and the Auction Houses, there's not much of a reason for higher levels to be in Azeroth at all (outside of camping people in STV, which never seems to get old). While I agree that they can go back and add stuff in those old areas, they haven't shown much of an inclination to do so. Why is this even a problem? Well, a lot of people would like them to follow up on stuff like the Titans' stronghold on Azeroth, what happened to Gilneas after the plague, and various other storylines, and are pretty bored with most of what's going on in Outland. (can't say why...new people writing the storyline maybe) Those people aren't gonna stick around long enough for them to finally flesh out this stuff in expansion 3. (unless there's some plans for WotLK I've not heard about)

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Mahes

EQ did not do it wrong, EQ actually did it right. WoW is doing it wrong. With EQ guilds had a clear progression path that needed to be taken, even if you were max level. EQ did not increase the level cap every expansion like Blizzard is doing. The power of items also did not increase nearly as much as they do in WoW.

In short, Blizzard is kind of shooting themselves in the foot doing what they are doing. Again this is why I hope WAR does well enough to provide competition, otherwise Blizzard can do whatever they want.

You think in WAR a new player is going to have to start by playing 2 year old expansions (a clear advancement path like EQ right?) because they are 100% useless to any current guild due to gear/AA? You're saying that will be the case in a primarily PVP game?

If anything WAR is going to reset gear per expansion more so than WoW.

[daishinzo]

At this point I don't think it matters what they do to the game. All my old guildies a lot of which have been playing from release refuse to quit unless something drastic comes along in their real life. At worse they sell their accounts and level up something new. 90% of the time in vent it's a) them bitching about being bored and having nothing to do b) them afk'ing in whatever bg to stock up points and tokens while leveling a new toon on a different account c) afking in BG's while playing TF2 or whatever flavor of the month game.

It's pretty much been like that for a year or so now and they still won't quit. I will be the first to admit it's a fun game but it gets old so fast if you're even remotely hardcore. I quit and sold my accounts about 8 times but finally back in June or so when they released veteran pvp gear I just said wtf am I doing after running my 10009090423 AB and canceled and haven't looked back or had the urge to resub but I am definately the minority. What's 1 subscriber lost to the 10 who keep playing instead? I tried every aspect from end game raiding, to arena, to casual. Leveled every char to max except druid and lock. It gets old too fast for me and as I've said a million times until they release an FFA pvp server without guard spam which they never will they won't get another dime from me =/

[Fris_Leafshadow]

my biggest issue w/ WoW's expansion is how it destroyed the old content. With EQ, if you weren't bleeding edge, there was still a great reason to raid the old zones with a new expansion. Heck, people still did Quam for several expansions afterwards for the loot. With the level requirement of items in WoW, they're shooting themselves in the foot by eliminating the use of their current content.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Dracoleech

Does anyone else see the same mistakes EQ made, is being made by Blizzard today? I am talking about item stat inflation and increasing level cap making all old content obsolete. If they had kept the level cap the same WoW could seemingly go on forever for players. The only reason I don't think WoW will die is solely because there is no competition for them now neither is there in the scope of the future. Does anyone else feel the same? Increasing the level cap gives me a sense that I don't even want to play the game until they done doing it.

I'm missing you listing any of the EQ Mistakes WoW is supposedly repeating.

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Not knowing the details of what SOE did to EQ back in the pre-WoW days I can't comment on that, but as a current WoW player I can tell you that there are quite a few people pissed at Blizzard for basically wanting to throw out more items and content while ignoring all the loose ends they've left in Azeroth (modern Hyjal, Gilneas, Uldum, Grim Batol).

Wow, really? I must have missed the last 20+ pages Protest thread "BLIZZARD FINISH GILNEAS NOW".
You know, I think the majority of the mature playerbase realizes that these zones aren't in yet because Blizzard wants to have a few zones left in the Old World so they can keep adding new content to the old world instead of completly abandoning it like Antonica. That's why nobody gives a shit about these closed areas.

Originally Posted by Mahes

EQ did not do it wrong, EQ actually did it right. WoW is doing it wrong. With EQ guilds had a clear progression path that needed to be taken, even if you were max level. EQ did not increase the level cap every expansion like Blizzard is doing. The power of items also did not increase nearly as much as they do in WoW.

So that's why EQ is dead now and WOW will announce 10m players in a few weeks?
WoW raises the level cap as frequently as EQ. EQ only didn't raise the level cap every expansion because they were pumping out expansions TWICE AS FAST as WoW. How can you NOT realize this?

[Big W Powah!]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Gear resets are better for new players down the road. 10 expansions worth of progression that people need to go through 5 years after launch = bad. That's how I see it. Some people here are stuck on the idea that having that one clicky for 6 years is uber awesome, but WoW isn't like that. It's made so that people can start up, come back or just plain reroll and be capable at the top end within a couple months..

You may not like it, but it isn't wrong.

About that "Same clicky for 5 or 10 years"...You know, coming back as a bard, thats one of the most frustrating things. I -won't- get those incredibly vital clickies to raiding bards. Songblade of the Eternal/Rapier of Somber Notes clicky is very needed, but from content WAY too past where the guild that recruited me to come back is. I'm sure theres others I'm going to be missing as well (lutes with insta +mana clicks and stuff), that I just wont have. Meaning, I'll be lesser than any bard whose sat through 6 years of progression, even though I'd be on bleeding edge content.