SOE's Next Step?

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by Serpens

I would argue fun is close to brain surgery. Fun is the undefinable "it" that makes a great game.

I would argue that it's not as hard as you would think; it's just that it's not made a priority until it's too late. It's as though developer's expect the fun to just fall into place when everything is put together.

I played through Vanguard's earlier Beta stages, and it seemed as though the developers acknowledged that "the game isn't fun right now". They focused on concepts and implementing layers of a system, but the problem was that at it's core it was never really fun.

From what I understand, with World of Warcraft, the developer's focused on one starting area, to begin with, and reworked it and reworked it and reworked it until the result was something that they liked and that they got positive feedback from with other internal testers. THEN, and only then, did they start creating the rest of the game, using that initial focused test as a measuring stick and going from there.

With Vanguard, they tried to fill out the world with half-assed content, then redid most of it, then redid it again (total waste of time/resources), and it wasn't until near the end that they actually starting making areas that seemed like they were made by professionals. IMO, that's not the best way of creating your game.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Nilden

It's actually amazing when you think about the resources, experience, and people behind all those SOE games and how much they all suck. Seriously it's not about the WoW clone it's about some bloody standards boys and girls. Don't release unpolished bug ridden crap that feels like something some 6 year olds with crayons worked on.

This just in SOE making a quality game and pigs can fly!!

If WoW did one thing for the MMO market it's up the standards across the board.

The SOE hate on this board is far more amazing than the above. I've got issues with some of SoE's games but implying that everying that SoE did was crap and saying that WoW upped the standards 'across the board' is bullshit. One expansion every two years is upping the standards?

[Izuldan]

One expansion every two years is upping the standards?

It's people like you that flock to the unpolished swill that is EQ expansions.

Quality is what counts. Not quantity.

For most of us anyways. For you, it seems like you would be happier with 2 shitty expansions every year than one good expansion every 2 years.

Not to mention you don't need a whole bunch of expansions early on if you're game is polished and has a lot of content to begin with. Don't fool yourself into thinking that all those expansions you are buying means the game is great. I can think of several WoW patches that would have counted as EQ expansions. Let's face it, most of us playing WoW would have bought these "mini-expansions" like BWL and AQ if they had been sold as expansion boxes.

[MrGraham]

Rofl. WoW has a lot going for it but content generation is not one of them.

[Laerazi]

6 months = way too short
1+ year = win
2 years = way too long

This is gold, devs; remember it.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

6 months = way too short
1+ year = win
2 years = way too long

This is gold, devs; remember it.

I agree. Although I think 2 years is nice, with free content pushed out in between for your PAYING MMO customers.

This strategy will be tough to implement now because SOE did not:

A. Release the game in a polished format with a good, crisp levelling arc defined by good, well designed zones.

B. Spend most of the first two years getting the game humming along with a good vision and outstanding design built for the long term.

Unfortunately, they did the exact opposite which is why EQ2 is currently a niche game despite Everquest having a huge name recognition marketing advantage.

Sadly, they only now are looking how to make EQ2 a great game, versus how to milk the most amount of cash out of it. If they had a clue from the get go and weren't so worried about selling superflous player stat crap and nickle and diming their players with adventure packs and shoddy expansions, but did work solely on creating that great game, they'd be making the money WOW is now.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Izuldan

It's people like you that flock to the unpolished swill that is EQ expansions.

Quality is what counts. Not quantity.

For most of us anyways. For you, it seems like you would be happier with 2 shitty expansions every year than one good expansion every 2 years.

Not to mention you don't need a whole bunch of expansions early on if you're game is polished and has a lot of content to begin with. Don't fool yourself into thinking that all those expansions you are buying means the game is great. I can think of several WoW patches that would have counted as EQ expansions. Let's face it, most of us playing WoW would have bought these "mini-expansions" like BWL and AQ if they had been sold as expansion boxes.

Jacking off to Blizz does not a credible post make. If you can't acknowledge that 2 years is too long between expansions than you're nothing more than an upaid shill.

Cheers.

[Lefazz]

Originally Posted by tad10

Jacking off to Blizz does not a credible post make. If you can't acknowledge that 2 years is too long between expansions than you're nothing more than an upaid shill.

It would be different if WoW had been completely static and unchanging since release for those 2 years but it wasn't. They added 3 40 raids zones (BWL, AQ40, Naxx) 2 20 man raid zones (ZG and AQ20), and a couple of 5 man dungeons (Mauradon and Dire Maul). That's a lot of free content in my opinion. I've been playing since release and I never felt bored or that I had "done it all". Granted, I understand if you are a PvP'er or a super casual person who only does 5 mans -- and I also agree that they should put some more focus on content like that between expansions.

Now, personally, I think TBC was sort of a let down -- but in reality if Blizzard took another 2 years for WotLK to come out I'd be fine with that as long as they continued to add to TBC content.

Like someone else said, what Blizzard has added to WoW would've counted as an expansion or two in EQ2 anyway. It just seems like YOU are just wanting to pay for a cardboard box every year.

[cyanbane]

Originally Posted by Jaytan

The shadowrun IP is owned by WizKids who are already working with SoE - the game developed for the 360 is a relic of the effectively no longer active corporation, FASA - FASA Interactive was spawned from them and developed Xbox the game in question.

I had no clue wizkids owned that. How did they even get into the mix after FASA?

Originally Posted by Jaytan

Oh and why I am being pedantic, SoE is part of Sony Pictures, not Sony Computer Entertainment, so they could probably do a 360 game if they had reason to believe it beneficial.

I don't see that happening.

At all.

[cyanbane]

Originally Posted by Lefazz

Like someone else said, what Blizzard has added to WoW would've counted as an expansion or two in EQ2 anyway. It just seems like YOU are just wanting to pay for a cardboard box every year.

Have fun looking forward to 2009 for WOW EP2.

It is totally subjective (and pretty much not worth arguing) , but WoW players can talk all day about non-expansion updates, but EQ2 players get new content with GUs,Adventure Packs (used too) AND EPs. As a casual raider, I don't mind waiting for new content every 1-2 months with EQ2.

[Gecko]

I'm sure the guy driving through Mcdonalds three times a week feels he's getting a better deal than the person going to Outback once every two weeks.

Personally, I'll take the Outback meal

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Oh good, this again. Recap:

Adding dungeons and raid zones that were supposed to be in at launch does not qualify as "free content". It qualifies as "getting what you paid for already". Look, WoW is awesome, but if there's one thing Sony can do better than Blizzard, that's churn out expansions. Now, you can argue the quality of those expansions, but in the time that WoW has put out 1, EQ2 has put out... 4.

And you can't seriously say with a straight face that TBC was any sort of tuned and balanced until just recently.

They're both great games - but seriously? Blizzard isn't good at putting out content fast. It's ok. You can site whatever you want as far as "quality versus quantity", but I don't care about the "quality" when I do the same god damned content for 2 years after beating it.

[Bongk]

People seem to have short memories also, yea sony never gave away any free zones uh huh. Like plane of fear, plane of hate, plane of air, jaggedpine forest, the warrens, stonebrunt mountains, veksar to name a few, nope never gave shit away and those eq2 guys they never give nothing away, what you say they gave a free zone, shard of fear, away this week well damn...

People need to pull the wow cock out of their ass and get real.

[Gecko]

The problem Bongk is while the game was full of shoddy, craptastic zones, instead of fixing those zones SOE decided to go on a tear, seeming to forget their customers already were paying a monthly fee.

Need a bit of a reminder?

PAY content the first two years:

The Bloodline Chronicles Adventure Pack March 21, 2005
The Splitpaw Saga Adventure Pack June 28, 2005
Desert of Flames Expansion September 13, 2005
Kingdom of Sky sqlplExpansion February 21, 2006
The Fallen Dynasty Adventure Pack June 14, 2006
Echoes of Faydwer Expansion November 14, 2006

This doesn't include the pay features for EQ2players and their other peripheral sites.

[Bongk]

you mean they had expansions the first 2 years? the gall of them bastards!

Because we all know the same people fix bugs and create new content.