SOE's Next Step?

[Vithe]

Originally Posted by Venjenz

Stuff

I see where your getting at. I do like your idea if implemented correctly.

I agree, most all MMOs are going down the route of everyone can solo, which you really have to I suppose. "Henchmen" in EQ would be a really cool way to allow that. They increased regen rate, but it just isnt enough.

[Venjenz]

The other thing I like about a cohort/henchman system, is that properly designed, it allows much more freedom at later stages of the game for playing any class. Blizzard did a great job improving the group content off the approved Holy Trinity of warrior, cleric, enchanter. But their model could be improved as well.

I already thought about the control factor. I think if you limited the total cohorts to say a max of three (and I say three because AO bureaucrat and metaphysicists have been happily working three pets at once for 6 years now) and actually allowed the player to make any one of them the leader, you could free the player to invent new ways to tackle content.

The biggest complaint would be from people who will insist that because of x type of cohort, their class is no longer needed in groups. which is bunk simply because anyone could play anything and have cohorts of all the classes to choose from to round out a balanced "solo-group".

And like I have said a bunch of times - I don't know if this would work, but why not try? Why leave it to the old models that everyone insists are the only way to do it? Plenty of people insisted that making a game where everyone could level solo if they wanted to wouldn't work because EQ was teh awesome and that was teh only way. And Blizzard said "oh yeah?" I just think it opens a lot of doors to both freedom and also to character development. The character development part is huge potential because rather than use the "long stick and big carrot" for one character, you can have shorter sticks and smaller carrots for the main character and the cohorts. Meaning, you can give the casual player easier to accomplish smaller goals that are part of a larger and more complex character development process than other games. It allows for much more unique development pathing and more ownership of the character by the subscriber.

WoW has the talents, but imagine if you took those trees, added in stuff like loyalty, leadership and squad based skills, and multiplied out by four. It is mind blowing to consider how much more variety you'd see among the playerbase. Even in WoW, talent specs only offer so much differentiation. In the end, there's two good talent specs for most classes, maybe three for one or two classes. But open it up, and the leader/cohort thing becomes very personal and customizable. And again, I am not saying that it should eliminate grouping, just add a layer of casual play that does not exist right now, which is the solo version of the pickup group. For stuff like boss mobs, you could easily tune a dungeon and the encounters to make them almost impossible with only bots, but more doable with real players in a traditional group. Just like a PUG can be pretty much any combo of classes you need, so long as healing, tanking and DPS are present in some form, so too is there a much larger number of possible leader/cohort combos that could get things done.

Fiddle with instancing, triggered events, and spawn rates, and it wouldn't really be too tough to tune the game environment to support it either. But someone needs to develop it and let people pound away at it for any of this to go beyond mental masturbation.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

The Agency could turn it around for SOE.

You're completely retarded.

[Aamina]

Originally Posted by tad10

You're completely retarded.

While I agree with the sentiment, do you feel that way because The Agency is unlikely to have any sort of badger/ferret creature, or because there's no way in hell a game like The Agency will get more than twice VG's subs?

I'm not sure a cohort/henchman system is the answer. The thing about WoW I liked most WAS instances, I avoided soloing if I ever could. Yeah, it'd be nice to do them if no one was online, but I don't think giving gold farmers an easier time is the answer. Too many games feel like a one player game with an AH already. Plus, while it pissed me off at the time, getting a terrible group was pretty funny. Telling someone they bought their character/solo'd to 50 and had no freaking idea what they were doing and watching them get all butthurt and save me the trouble of kicking them was sweet. And then when you got a good one it was that much better.

As has been said earlier, it'd be nice if SOE just broke the mold with a solid title that isn't EQlike or WoWlike (note that The Agency is NOT this). Yeah, it could be a fantasy MMO even if we could just get a solid title out. EQ2 is starting to be sort of solid...sort of...years after release when it was a steaming pile. Vanguard...eww... Star Wars Galaxies didn't end up doing too well and while most people blame NGE much like some Christians think that if Jews weren't alive Jesus would've lived a long, healthy life, the fact remains that the game probably would be dwindling on down by now anyway.

[Hatorade]

Give me a MMORPG with a solo option. Throw in kickass computer henchmen with great AI, that I can tailor to my needs. Have up to 6 in a party with 6 man raids. In WoW for example I could bring any class I wanted and tell the Warrior to be Defense speced. Priest to be Disc...etc etc. The option to upgrade them to match my current gear would also be nice. Or even if I could maybe set them to be a inventory clicky that would store all equipment I put on them. It would be like leveling up an entire group and as you killed shit equip what has been found on whoever can use.

The AI part would be the hardest I think. But I think it would be doable. Set something up like Gambits in FFXII. If mob is 100% have warrior sunder. If I am at 50% health Flash heal etc.

Ofcourse the option of playing with a friend would be cool too. It would eliminate PUGs and give me the chance to raid when I wanted too and not just when the guild was.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by tad10

You're completely retarded.

The Agency potentially could be the MMO equivalent of Team Fortress 2. Everquest1 was a great game don't get me wrong but Game Designers are trying to give us the next level. Garriott has tried with TR but missed the mark. So did Hellgate. However, they tried.

The Agency potentially could be it. I don't think we willl see another Everquest1 or Vanguard any time soon if ever again.

Of course I would like to see the Planetside guys get with EA/DICE and make Planetside2.

[FulorianC]

Originally Posted by Hatorade

Give me a MMORPG with a solo option. Throw in kickass computer henchmen with great AI, that I can tailor to my needs. Have up to 6 in a party with 6 man raids. In WoW for example I could bring any class I wanted and tell the Warrior to be Defense speced. Priest to be Disc...etc etc. The option to upgrade them to match my current gear would also be nice. Or even if I could maybe set them to be a inventory clicky that would store all equipment I put on them. It would be like leveling up an entire group and as you killed shit equip what has been found on whoever can use.

The AI part would be the hardest I think. But I think it would be doable. Set something up like Gambits in FFXII. If mob is 100% have warrior sunder. If I am at 50% health Flash heal etc.

Ofcourse the option of playing with a friend would be cool too. It would eliminate PUGs and give me the chance to raid when I wanted too and not just when the guild was.

How about Might and Magic as an MMO?

[Tyen]

I agree that The Agency could turn it around for SoE 100%.

How is this statement retarded?

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Tyen

I agree that The Agency could turn it around for SoE 100%.

How is this statement retarded?

SOE has what 300k+ subs in EQ/EQ2/everything else. What exactly needs to be turned around -- it isn't like SOE is losing money -- and why exactly would anyone use that particularly retarded phrase?

As an aside, fantasy games are the most popular form of RPG gaming -- Top Secret while a fun game never had 1/10th the sales of DnD. So if by turning around you mean reliving the EQ glory as the number one MMO on the market than no 'The Agency' won't turn it around -- EQ3 -- if it does away with the tank/heal/cc trinity and gives us truly intelligent bosses -- maybe.

[Whoknows]

Soe's basically thrown in the towel. They're not going to go up against WoW directly and are searching for alternatives. They're basically working at the behest of Sony's console division now and will concentrate on helping the PS3 get off the ground. Their future in house developed products will probably all support the PS3 if not completely PS3 focused. I don't see them coming out with anything remotely on the scale of a whole new Everquest game or developing something completely new. They'll continue to bail out companies who are in trouble or buy up games that need funding, but they will not fund fully a game from scratch that isn't going to be something PS3-centric.

[FulorianC]

Who said you had to go up against WoW to make a profit? EQ is making a profit right now with 1/100th the playerbase and is receiving more content for it.

[Laerazi]

I don't see any indication of SOE throwing in the towel; did I miss something?

With them focusing on quality expansions for both EQ1/EQ2 I see them continually trying to prove that they have what it takes to make good MMOs.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by tad10

SOE has what 300k+ subs in EQ/EQ2/everything else. What exactly needs to be turned around -- it isn't like SOE is losing money -- and why exactly would anyone use that particularly retarded phrase?

He's still a little sore about all the laughs and criticisms his game "Vanguard" got.

[Tyen]

What does SoE have to turn around you ask?

The fact that they canned two "in development games" and have Sony Pictures not too happy with the revenue they bring in.

They need to start kicking it in high gear.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by tad10

SOE has what 300k+ subs in EQ/EQ2/everything else. What exactly needs to be turned around -- it isn't like SOE is losing money -- and why exactly would anyone use that particularly retarded phrase?

As an aside, fantasy games are the most popular form of RPG gaming -- Top Secret while a fun game never had 1/10th the sales of DnD. So if by turning around you mean reliving the EQ glory as the number one MMO on the market than no 'The Agency' won't turn it around -- EQ3 -- if it does away with the tank/heal/cc trinity and gives us truly intelligent bosses -- maybe.

I sort of see your point but by "turning it around" I mean being seen in the industry the way that Blizzard is seen in the industry. Everything Blizzard touches turns to gold. Love them or hate them, you have respect for them. If they are coming out with a title you take a second and third look at it.

Currently, SOE is seen as the "trust fund kid" of Mother Sony with a couple of fairly financially successful MMOs (EQ2 and the upcoming PoTBS will go in this category), several has beens (EQ1, SWG and Planetside), a few failed projects on life support that would be shut down if not for the trust fund (Vanguard and The Matrix Online), and some type of gay-ass online card game.

In addition, fantasy without the holy trinity is not fantasy. The holy trinity actually forces group interaction and is why people like fantasy to begin with. Even WoW players like group interaction, they just don't want to be dependent on leveling to max with a group.

That said, EQ3 will not bring SOE back no matter how good it is. New, young gamers want quick action, low system specs, fast PvP action with no subscription fee. If you add guns instead of swords they will like it even more. The EQ1 generation of gamers are living in the past (me included). They do not have the time to devote to playing those types of games anymore. Not only do they not have the time due to RL obligations but there are so many good games regardless of genre out there now. EQ1 was the right game at the right time. EQ1 and it's retarded half brother, Vanguard, are relics of gaming's past. Time to look to the future.