[WoW] PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue.

[James]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

I do understand character attachment, which is why I said transferring to a PvP server that has a level 70 on it absolutely should be done. The only reason I'm even engaged in this argument is because I supported an idea that would allow PvE -> PvP transfers albiet conditionally. I'm not the one that brings this topic up once or twice a month though.

You stop it.

Which makes NO SENSE. Level up a throwaway character? This goes actively against even recent Blizzard decisions where they have announced the lower level requirement for unlocking an entire damn epic ass hero class, because Blizzard despises the thought of having to level up throwaway characters. It's a slap in the face, really.

The very existence of this policy creates a sense that levelling up on a server that is not PvP is bad and wrong, even to complete newbies who have 0 information to go on other than "well, you can transfer here, but not here." It needs to be removed, there needs to be no conditions, and Blizzard needs to get it through their head that the type of thinking displayed in the quoted text is OBSOLETE and BACKWARDS.

But you haven't been deprived shit. You CHOSE to roll on a PvE server.

And like I've said a hundred times, who knew what that meant at the time? When the game first launched, people from EQ had the mindset that PvP servers were the cesspool degenerates of the MMO genre -- ask Juggernaut why they are on a PvE server and I'll bet you get an answer somewhat close to that.

The full consequence of the choice for PvP or PvE does not become clear until level 70, at which point it is too late to start over or reroll or whatever.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by James

The full consequence of the choice for PvP or PvE does not become clear until level 70, at which point it is too late to start over or reroll or whatever.

Please explain the full consequence to me. Most of the complaints regarding the issue have nothing to do with the mechanics of PvE and PvP servers and everything to do with populations. Am I correct in saying this?

Personally I think the ability to be ganked while trying to complete a PvE goal isn't quite the non-issue that some people want to make it out to be.

[Presarc]

The full consequence is that PvE servers are by and large dead. There are a few out there that are still going strong, but for every 1 PvE server that is healthy there are 10+ PvP servers. Also, PvP servers are -- as a rule -- further progressed than PvE servers are. Just look at bosskillers.com or wowjutsu.com and look at the rankings to prove that. There is one or two PvE guilds near the top and the rest are all PvP.

[James]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Please explain the full consequence to me. Most of the complaints regarding the issue have nothing to do with the mechanics of PvE and PvP servers and everything to do with populations. Am I correct in saying this?

No. That's just one of the reasons and a symptom made worse by the barrier to transfer. The difference between PvE and PvP in the raiding scene alone is enough to warrant a transfer, in my opinion. On PvE servers you have to worry about things like "raid AIDS," which for reasons beyond my comprehension actually pisses people off. You know I've raided on PvE for more than a year now, and it never ceases to amaze me when someone gets pissed off that they get PvP flagged from healing someone -- like it has never happened before. And I actually like killing people outside of raid instances, it's truly the last world PvP that really can't be circumvented easily. Something experienced AT level 70, however, not on the way to it.

The mentality shift from PvP to PvE is fairly harsh as well, and it's a mentality I miss a great deal. It's not something easily discovered until you either try to join or try to form a raiding guild. Combine that with the fact that PvP servers don't want to transfer to your guild, and that there are no good PvE Horde servers, and you lose 3/4ths of your recruiting power right off the bat.

But I don't need to justify the reasons why we should have open transfers. All I need to point out is the incosistencies with their policies, and how backwards their shit really is. And that is something that no one yet has refuted.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by machineman

They are depriving half (or more) of their playerbase of a key gameplay element - player vs. player conflict. We all pay the same subscription rate, and it is a policy that's time has passed.

They aren't depriving you of shit. You're depriving yourself of it.

My friends and I did the democratic thing to decide which server/side we'd be on. Started off Alliance PvE, determined that was gay and switched to Horde. We leveled up Horde PvE to 51 from release before we got bored as shit with nothing to do. We rerolled PvP in January and never looked back. It's not like it's a major pain in the ass to reroll or anything. If you chose to get to 60 or 70 and couldn't see the problems with only doing instanced content for the rest of your miserable lives, that's not Blizzards fault. They gave you your candy ass gameplay, just like you signed up for.

Wah, wah factions wah. You know what we did this weekend? We took 2 days, took our level 70 alts and got them keyed for heroics. We managed to get our group Revered with every faction except lower city in one weekend...these are characters with literally jack shit for instance runs done. It's not that big of a task if you chose to do it.

[James]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

They aren't depriving you of shit. You're depriving yourself of it.

My friends and I did the democratic thing to decide which server/side we'd be on. Started off Alliance PvE, determined that was gay and switched to Horde. We leveled up Horde PvE to 51 from release before we got bored as shit with nothing to do. We rerolled PvP in January and never looked back. It's not like it's a major pain in the ass to reroll or anything. If you chose to get to 60 or 70 and couldn't see the problems with only doing instanced content for the rest of your miserable lives, that's not Blizzards fault. They gave you your candy ass gameplay, just like you signed up for.

Wah, wah factions wah. You know what we did this weekend? We took 2 days, took our level 70 alts and got them keyed for heroics. We managed to get our group Revered with every faction except lower city in one weekend...these are characters with literally jack shit for instance runs done. It's not that big of a task if you chose to do it.

The same argument can be easily applied to character transfers in general -- you don't like the server you're on, then reroll. It's not hard. Why don't you do it? I know you did. I've done it. Many of us here have. But that's not the mentality Blizzard embraced when they decided to open them up. In fact, they embraced the exact opposite mentality of that, so using that argument to justify one type of transfer while simultaneously using it to strike the other type down is wrong at best, and hostile at worst.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by MrGraham

Orrrr some of us would like for our friend's 2+ year old character to be able to come play with us if they want to.

I have no idea why they haven't done this. Some people might bitch, but no one would quit over them doing this, and at the same time they stand to make a sizable chunk of change from it.

Well there are 2 issues. One is being able to play with your friends. The other is dead servers.

I would like them to open transfers to ANY server as well as MERGE the dead servers. If someone is on a dead server and doesn't like their destination, they would then have the option of transfering to a server of their choice for a fee.

But should only one of these changes take place, I would like to see dead servers merged OVER transfers from PVE -> PVP or any type of server transfer for that matter.

[machineman]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Now, I'm all for allowing PvE -> PvP transfers. The original argument was that leveling on PvP servers is harder. Well, it was, back when there were actually tons of people fighting over the same quest mobs, from both factions. Now, 1 -> 60, and even the early to mid 60s, is empty. So leveling up on a PvP server is just as easy as on PvE.

But you haven't been deprived shit. You CHOSE to roll on a PvE server.

Yup, I chose it. But as was pointed out in the OP, it's very much agains the spirit of the game to continue to disallow it, especially with the changes they are making... and the time has come to allow the transfer.

As quick as it is (and will be) to level a toon to 70 on a PvP server, why should I be forced into 10 additional days of /played time for a character I'm totally going to trash and not use? It's only to get my main character over. You think Blizzard would think that's a good design decision? Nope. So they won't do it that way.

[machineman]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

We rerolled PvP in January and never looked back. It's not like it's a major pain in the ass to reroll or anything.

Did you read anything so far? Rerolling isn't the point - people want to KEEP their main character, but add the element of player vs. player conflict.

If you have a.d.d. and reroll every 2 months because you're bored, or don't care about character achievements, it shouldn't be my problem. This is a game in the RPG genre, not an FPS and unfortunately Blizzard is fostering mentality like yours, at the detriment of the game.

[Thoruk]

The issue with PvE -> PvP servers is not leveling 1-70. The issue is at 70.

I have played on Kel'Thuzad for 3 years now and have had my fair share of horrible camping experiences while leveling, but I can tell you it's 100x worse at 70 than 1-60.

I am trying to run daily quests every day to save up for my epic. I have to completely skip Simon Says out of my dailies due to the retarded-ness that is Alliance in BEM.

If we start allowing PvE xfers to PvP servers, you will have a shit fest on the boards of more and more people complaining about being camped for an hour while doing quests at 70. I don't think Blizzard will want to deal with something like that.

[The Ancient]

Yeah, I take back the level to transfer to a PvP server endorsement. If you are on a PvE server my new stance is suck it up or reroll. The fact that a Tier 5/6 raider who has created his character without a moment's worry about being ganked can come over and start owning face of lesser players is a legitimate compaint. The refusal to acknowledge it is no worse than a blind eye to the plight of the PVE player which I'll take from now on. Not my problem, I rolled on PvP from day 1.

[Twobit Whore]

That argument hinges on the theory that someone who is in T5/6 on a PvE server couldn't achieve it on a PvP server simply due to ganking which is laughable at best.

[dechire]

Originally Posted by James

When the game first launched, people from EQ had the mindset that PvP servers were the cesspool degenerates of the MMO genre --

wait... you mean this isnt true?

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

That argument hinges on the theory that someone who is in T5/6 on a PvE server couldn't achieve it on a PvP server simply due to ganking which is laughable at best.

Not at all. The argument is that they didn't have to worry about ganking until their character got powerful enough where they wouldn't have to worry about ganking. And now they have the ability to gank at will.

[Presarc]

The biggest concern in WoW is obviously ganking.