Vanguard Development Moves to the San Diego Studio

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by GaliemVaelant

I blame Microsoft. Their greed drove them to try and force VG to be a Vista only title, and if it weren't for that, the game would only just now be hitting open beta. And I blame brown. I blame it too much.

I never once heard of VG being DX10 only (which is only way really for it to be vista only), got a link? I played in beta 2 which was way before vista was out and when MS still was in the picture. It was win xp.

[Vatoreus]

The performance is great, yea, but the PvP server at least is still a steaming pile of shit. I just logged in and noticed a huge difference from the last time I was playing: The game looked and ran a lot better, but there was a noticeable lack of fun and people.

[Mist]

They should retool the game into a hardcore PvP game like EVE did after it's initial flop. Then they could at least capture a niche market. SoE doesn't have a PvP game, so they could add one to their lineup.

EDIT: I forgot PlanetLOLside.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by GaliemVaelant

The soap opera that is the MMORPG genre has become a monument to wasted potential, and SoE built the foundation. I don't blame Brad. He had employees to pay, so selling out to SoE was more a question of letting his employees' children eat. I don't blame SoE. They're a vampiric corporation that lets its victims live just long enough to come back and drain a trickle more for a while, but you can't blame a leech for being a leech, especially if it's really good at leeching. You can't blame the fans. Ever.

I blame Microsoft. Their greed drove them to try and force VG to be a Vista only title, and if it weren't for that, the game would only just now be hitting open beta. And I blame brown. I blame it too much.

Ok, is there any proof of that? I have heard everything from it being a 360 title, to a DX10 title, to a Vista launch title. I've also heard Sigil was given autonomy over their project, with MS paying the bills

Any way you slice, Sigils leadership is responsible for it's demise. Microsoft spent big bucks funding Sigil, and after years and tens of millions, they were wise enough to cut the cord and try to salvage any cash they could when they figured out Vanguard was a half baked bloatware bust. If Vanguard had a halfway decent chance of ROI, MS would have kept the product. Asherons Call 2 taught them different.

I'm no M$ fan, but the blame resides solely on Sigil's inept and incompetent leadership. I'm equally sure Mcquaid didn't lose any cash or sleep. Heck, the guy didn't even show up to let go the people busting their behinds for him when it tanked. There's a fellow who deserves to never lead anything ever again, IMO.

[kasey]

I am with Galiem, i feel this whole genre is moving in a retarded direction of no depth. I didnt get hooked on a mmo since eq1. Everything has been so shallow so stupid so incomplete since then, yes i realize eq1 was a very incomplete game but not the game depth. I just wish WoW had different ruleset servers. I want to talk to my enemies for a start. WoW has been the closest to a new nice mmo so far to me, i notice that everytime i try one of these retarded new mmos where i cant even move around like i want (lol..).
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[Vatoreus]

Originally Posted by Mist

They should retool the game into a hardcore PvP game like EVE did after it's initial flop. Then they could at least capture a niche market. SoE doesn't have a PvP game, so they could add one to their lineup.

EDIT: I forgot PlanetLOLside.

this

[spentmotiff]

Originally Posted by GaliemVaelant

The soap opera that is the MMORPG genre has become a monument to wasted potential, and SoE built the foundation. I don't blame Brad. He had employees to pay, so selling out to SoE was more a question of letting his employees' children eat. I don't blame SoE. They're a vampiric corporation that lets its victims live just long enough to come back and drain a trickle more for a while, but you can't blame a leech for being a leech, especially if it's really good at leeching. You can't blame the fans. Ever.

I blame Microsoft. Their greed drove them to try and force VG to be a Vista only title, and if it weren't for that, the game would only just now be hitting open beta. And I blame brown. I blame it too much.

Wow...all this time and there are still posts like this about VG? You mean all these months later and people are still trying to blame anything other than McQuaid's incompetence?

Yes, yes, you do that. Blame Microsoft. I'm sure it's their fault for ruining VG.

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by kasey

I am with Galiem, i feel this whole genre is moving in a retarded direction of no depth. I didnt get hooked on a mmo since eq1. Everything has been so shallow so stupid so incomplete since then, yes i realize eq1 was a very incomplete game but not the game depth. I just wish WoW had different ruleset servers. I want to talk to my enemies for a start. WoW has been the closest to a new nice mmo so far to me, i notice that everytime i try one of these retarded new mmos where i cant even move around like i want (lol..).
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EQ1 didn't have much depth. There were a handful of useful quests and the rest was grinding/leveling up in different locations, grabbing whatever loot dropped. If anything, WoW is significantly more involved and complex (albeit, also easier to use) than EQ1 was 2 years from it's release.

[Vatoreus]

Originally Posted by kasey

I am with Galiem, i feel this whole genre is moving in a retarded direction of no depth. I didnt get hooked on a mmo since eq1. Everything has been so shallow so stupid so incomplete since then, yes i realize eq1 was a very incomplete game but not the game depth. I just wish WoW had different ruleset servers. I want to talk to my enemies for a start. WoW has been the closest to a new nice mmo so far to me, i notice that everytime i try one of these retarded new mmos where i cant even move around like i want (lol..).
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you're playing on the ffa pvp server?

[Merauk]

Originally Posted by GaliemVaelant

I don't blame Brad.

I don't either, I blame Raph Koster.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by GaliemVaelant

I blame Microsoft. Their greed drove them to try and force VG to be a Vista only title, and if it weren't for that, the game would only just now be hitting open beta. And I blame brown. I blame it too much.

If VG was Vista and Xbox it would likely be a better game right now, since you cannot release a console game with frame rate issues and massive bugs/exploits, and probably more than 1 guy would have been QA.

[spronk]

Originally Posted by Gecko

I'm still completely confused as to why SOE would buy this game. I've tried it twice, at release and again over the summer and it really is so far from being a finished, polished product it blows me away Sigil spent 40 million or so developing it.

I think they should assimilate the good portions into EQ2/EQ and just dump the game. I have yet to talk to almost anyone who cares for it, including old time EQ hardcore people from the day.

I don't know the $$ specifics but typically a big corp like Microsoft will unload unwanted assets for minimal amounts. Its better to get something you don't want off the books ASAP than have it lingering around sucking up resources. Its pretty common across all types of businesses to have things sold for almost nothing when the controlling company decides it no longer wants to be involved in that area. I wouldn't be suprised it Microsoft just gave it away for a $1 or some other very low amount, or maybe some stock in SOE. Microsoft also gets a tax writeoff by saying "ok, we invested $40 million (or w/e) in Sigil, and we sold it for a $1, thats a $40 million loss we get to offset against the $1 billion a week we make in Windows/Office sales."

Sometimes the buyer can turn it around and make a big bundle, in fact thats the whole point of leveraged buyout firms, who buy distressed companies at fire sales, "fix em up" (usually bad for employees though), and then resell at 2x-10x profit a few years down the line. I believe Bioware is a good example of this, investors sunk a few million a few years back and the company got sold for nearly a billion to EA recently.

Sigil was just riddled by incompetence at all levels and thats what sunk the game, not Microsoft or Vista or SOE or anything else. Have a crap team, make a crap game.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

EQ1 didn't have much depth. There were a handful of useful quests and the rest was grinding/leveling up in different locations, grabbing whatever loot dropped. If anything, WoW is significantly more involved and complex (albeit, also easier to use) than EQ1 was 2 years from it's release.

The difference between EQ and WoW was that in EQ the players had to protect their own interests. There was competition for limited ressources and you had to find a way to either fight or work out a deal.

In WoW the virtual dungeon master has complete control and you can relax and just play on autopilot. Nobody is going to interfere except the occasional high level idiot who likes jumping lowbies.

The major difference between both games is the so called meta-game. EQ had one, WoW doesn't.

[Digo]

Originally Posted by Neric

The difference between EQ and WoW was that in EQ the players had to protect their own interests. There was competition for limited ressources and you had to find a way to either fight or work out a deal.

In WoW the virtual dungeon master has complete control and you can relax and just play on autopilot. Nobody is going to interfere except the occasional high level idiot who likes jumping lowbies.

The major difference between both games is the so called meta-game. EQ had one, WoW doesn't.

WoW's metagame protects people that don't want to worry about having to deal with rat bastards and people with too much free time by shifting the focus to talent specs, proper gear selection, figuring out strategies, arena team matrices ... things that actually involve playing the game.

EQ was much more about playing other people. Once upon a time, my WoW guild had some great EQ players that were absolutely miserable at playing WoW. Great social networkers that could run a guild bank or get people together to steal a spawn, but lousy players when it came to execution and completely worthless in PvP.

WoW has more depth and more nuance to its mechanics than EQ did, although I can't speak for the current state of EQ's endgame, as I've heard they've done some pretty cool stuff lately.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Digo

EQ was much more about playing other people. Once upon a time, my WoW guild had some great EQ players that were absolutely miserable at playing WoW. Great social networkers that could run a guild bank or get people together to steal a spawn, but lousy players when it came to execution and completely worthless in PvP.

So you agree with me that both games are quite different despite looking rather similar at first.

What everyone prefers is basically a matter of taste. I wouldn't mind playing WoW under the EQ ruleset. In fact I have written before that I am quite curious how EQ characters would do it Azeroth and some will probably wonder who it would be vice versa.

Basically competitive gameplay in WoW has been restricted to Arena and BGs. PvE is completely lacking it, except the occasional idiot jumping you during a fight. In my opinion that's a wasted chance, because Azeroth is a huge beautiful world with much more potential than just to level up alone. Maybe one day they'll introduce a contested dungeon to test the feedback. I think DAoC tried out that concept and it worked quite well.