WAR Closed Beta has started!

[Gilgamel]

Originally Posted by melicant

Lets see... you want to raid 4 nights (PVE), 5-10 man two nights (PVE), and pvp all the rest of the time? That's ONE night out of the week you left to possibly PvP... WTF? Don't bother with WAR, it isn't the game for you.

Mythic/EA knows they can't compete against blizzard to try to get the PVE crowd. There are a lot of people that hate PVE and and primarly or exclusively want to fight other players, and those are the people Mythic/EA is going after. It's called Niche marketing, and it's actually a very good business model. Picking one thing and doing it well to get that share of the market is much better than putting out an inferior product to market to the masses and ending up with no customers at all.

That was an example of a scenario where you have multiple things to do. Also raids don't take all fucking night. For you to get all righteous that someone would actually want something to do other than pvp is fucking retarded. Here's a clue: most players, even people like me who truly enjoy it, don't want to pvp 24/7. That's a surefire way to burn out your players.

[Kasi]

It seems to work pretty well for the 200k+ subscribers in Eve, or at least the significant number of them involved in 0.0 space. War like many have said here is a niche game. But it does have better PVE options than Eve has, so it should be more appealing to the masses, especially since the PVP is a bit less hardcore and not so restrictive to entry. I agree with those who have said that it's stupid to try to beat WoW by being WoW2. They need to develop a niche of the MMO market and do it really well. That will pull in people who want to play that game, even from WoW, as long as they do that part of the game better. Maybe if there was enough of those WoW would be affected in numbers. But everyone wants to be the next WoW, which is pretty much futile given their headstart and player base.

[Gilgamel]

The open ended nature of EVE is completely different from a fantasy setting with two distinct sides and essentially an RVR competition. Something like the giant war going on in EVE could never happen in this game, because you are locked into one side or the other. EVE is a political game, which this game is not. It's hard to switch sides in a conflict or break an alliance when you are hardcoded as order or destruction. I'm not trying to step on any PVP fanboy toes here, I'm just saying this game would be well served by giving people more than one option at the cap, something it may in fact have. Nerd-raging at me for suggesting so seems nonsensical.

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

That was an example of a scenario where you have multiple things to do. Also raids don't take all fucking night. For you to get all righteous that someone would actually want something to do other than pvp is fucking retarded. Here's a clue: most players, even people like me who truly enjoy it, don't want to pvp 24/7. That's a surefire way to burn out your players.

You are pveing 6 nights a week and still find the need to pvp before/after your raids? Man I don't envy your addiction.

Two of the most common complaints I hear from WoW players is having to PvE in order to PvP at the top tier and of course the famous combined PvE/PvP rulesets.

I PvP. Not like you PvP. I hate PvE and I hate scheduling my PvP time around my teammates raid schedules. I hate when PvE nerfs trickle down into PvP. I hate getting facerolled by dual warglaives when my weapons can't touch that. With Warhammer I won't have to worry about any of that shit. I'm burned out trying to PvP in a PvE biased game. If you don't get that then Warhammer is not your game.

Even if Warhammers PvP wasn't better than WoW's (and it is) I would still play it just so I don't have to PvE 6 nights a week like you to stay competitive.

[ajiatus]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

...I'm not trying to step on any PVP fanboy toes here, I'm just saying this game would be well served by giving people more than one option at the cap, something it may in fact have. Nerd-raging at me for suggesting so seems nonsensical.

Gilgamel,

Forget about the nerdrage, the bottom line is that WAR is built around RvR (not even PvP, but RvR). Which means that many will be disappointed, and judging from your comments that will probably include you. I understand there may be a dearth of new MMOs lately, and you may be frustrated by WAR not being what you would like it to be, but the bottom line is that it's a game with a clear focus (RvR) which unlike many of the more recent flops actually has a good chance to succeed by doing one thing and doing it well. The endgame will be as good or as bad as the players playing it. A server with good guilds (motivated to impose themselves as a force in the RvR campaign) could have a terrific endgame, with grand battles and lots of renown. A server with lots of solo players could be a boring zergfest. There is an endgame, its quality will be very dependent on the community that will play WAR.

[melicant]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

That was an example of a scenario where you have multiple things to do. Also raids don't take all fucking night. For you to get all righteous that someone would actually want something to do other than pvp is fucking retarded. Here's a clue: most players, even people like me who truly enjoy it, don't want to pvp 24/7. That's a surefire way to burn out your players.

Most people that raid 4 nights a week and 5 man on other nights just don't have a lot of time left for PvP (unless they don't do anything other than game after work/school, and that isn't "most" people). I was trying to save you some money, because for a person that primarily likes to PvE WAR just isn't going to be satisfying. For your guidelines I think you already have the perfect game for yourself with WoW.

There are enough people out there that like to PvP close to 24/7 that can make WAR successful. Play a PvP oriented game like DAOC and you quickly realize how much a majority of those players loathe any required PVE that takes time away from pvp.

*edit

I think your post asking about how much pve is going to be in is fine, but don't say you like to pvp and then give an example that sounds like you pve a majority of the time. If you post something that makes it sound like you primarily PVE and think a company has a terrible business model for not marketing to you and your desire for more pve, expect a response.

It wasn't me that gave you -internets btw.

[Gilgamel]

How much you play is irrelevant. The question is once I finish leveling do I have options or not. A legitimate point worthy of discussion about an upcoming game is what used to make this place an entertaining read. If I wanted to get shit for throwing out the example of raiding 4 nights a week leading to dumbshits giving me negative internets and telling me to go back to WoW(a game I have played a total of 9 days since well before burning crusade came out) I could probably post it on any number of fansites based solely on the game and get the same response. I thought the whole point of this forum was for experienced MMOers to discuss games without dealing with all the dumb fucks.

I have never raided 7 nights a week, never pvp'd for 40 hours a week, and go many months at a time without playing any MMO whatsoever. Whether you choose to dedicate 20 hours a week or 5 to WAR does not make the question of wtf there is to do at the cap any less pertinent.

[Mogley]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

How much you play is irrelevant. The question is once I finish leveling do I have options or not.

And people have told you that there are ~14 different end game scenarios, ~12 RvR zones each with their own objectives and keeps to take, 3 huge fortresses, and the instanced city attacks. There are also 80 renown ranks that will take quite a while to reach after you are 'finished' leveling.

PvE, there are quests and PQs in every zone, two high-level instanced dungeons out in the world, two max-level dungeon instances in each capital city, PvE quests in the instanced city attacks, and several raid-like PQs when your side captures the enemy capital.

So yes there are options, but if you are mainly interested in PvE, WAR probably isn't the game for you.

Edit: Screwed up the count on scenarios.

[Skrigg]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

does not make the question of wtf there is to do at the cap any less pertinent.

WAR's end game is basically world rvr/scenario's, city raids, open world public quests, a few public dungeons w/ instances in them, material farming and crafting. The end game will vary based on what each individual player makes of it based on those things.

[Steamrice]

What people will be doing is grinding the shit out of renown points in RvR areas.

Don't fool yourself into thinking there won't be much competition and that you can casually grind and be ok because when it comes to getting out there in RvR you will be ganked by grinders with lots of renown skills that makes a HUGE difference in his stats compared to yours unless you bring a lot of backup.

Incase you missed what renown points are for.

Hard as Nails I – Increases your Toughness by 3, costs 1 Renown point
Hard as Nails V – Increases your Toughness by 42, costs 14 Renown points
Blade Master III – Increases your Strength by 9 and Weapon Skill by 9, costs 10 Renown points
Fireproof I – Increases your Elemental Resistance by 20, costs 5 Renown points
Improved Heavy Armor III – Increases your Armor by 900, costs 15 Renown points

[melicant]

Ok, ROFL at whoever gave him this -internets:

"Actually, I did give you negative internets -melicant"

Fess up so I can give you a +internets for the laugh.

*edit

I see more are hopping aboard the funny train:

"Heres some more more negative internets, bitch. -seriously melicant this time"

"i hacked the system to give you even more -internets - melicant"

And a + for me.....

"I want your manseed - Gilgamel"

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

How much you play is irrelevant. The question is once I finish leveling do I have options or not. A legitimate point worthy of discussion about an upcoming game is what used to make this place an entertaining read. If I wanted to get shit for throwing out the example of raiding 4 nights a week leading to dumbshits giving me negative internets and telling me to go back to WoW(a game I have played a total of 9 days since well before burning crusade came out) I could probably post it on any number of fansites based solely on the game and get the same response. I thought the whole point of this forum was for experienced MMOers to discuss games without dealing with all the dumb fucks.

I have never raided 7 nights a week, never pvp'd for 40 hours a week, and go many months at a time without playing any MMO whatsoever. Whether you choose to dedicate 20 hours a week or 5 to WAR does not make the question of wtf there is to do at the cap any less pertinent.

You are just going to have to take our word for it when I say that there is a large population of MMO players that are happy with the lack of PvE in Warhammer. It may not be what the genre is used to and it may not be your style but there is obviously demand for it. I still do AV after 3 years of it and giving me more maps to pvp on is only going to make me want to play more than I ever did in WoW.

[Gilgamel]

Originally Posted by Mogley

And people have told you that there are 20 different end game scenarios, 18 RvR zones each with their own objectives and keeps to take, 3 huge fortresses, and the instanced city attacks. There are also 80 renown ranks that will take quite a while to reach after you are 'finished' leveling.

PvE, there are quests and PQs in every zone, two high-level instanced dungeons out in the world, two max-level dungeon instances in each capital city, PvE quests in the instanced city attacks, and several raid-like PQs when your side captures the enemy capital.

So yes there are options, but if you are mainly interested in PvE, WAR probably isn't the game for you.

I'm obviously doing a poor job of expressing myself. I have no problem with a PVP endgame. I am perfectly willing to commit the majority of my time ingame to the slaughter of other players. This is not the problem.

The problem I am seeing is that there are a number of situations where being limited only to that one version of endgame will be frustrating. Such as:

1. Being on a realm where one side dominates and you never get to see the endgame PVP triggered encounters.

2. Being limited to open siege instances where when you decide to do anything you face the prospect of any random asshat who wants to come play being lumped into your raid. This is something from my understanding that will be present in every major city siege due to the open nature of it.

This does not mean I am badmouthing WAR. This does not mean I should "go back to WoW lolz" I am in fact looking forward to WAR immensely. What this means is I am legitimately concerned about what the endgame is going to be like, especially since my guild appears set to be Order and on most servers I expect destruction to dominate. One side has to lose, and if your side spends a month or a year unable to attack the other side's major city it looks to me like you're going to be shit out of luck as far as something to do. The nature of PvP is to zerg, and in a game like this that looks almost certain to be the way it turns out.

I am just trying to get through my apparently thick skull what the developers are doing to get around this.

Edit: Also give me all the negative internets you want, I don't care about it. I'm simply trying to have a discussion of game mechanics, and "it's RVR L2P!!" is not exactly stimulating conversation.

[Rako]

Originally Posted by melicant

Ok, ROFL at whoever gave him this -internets:

"Actually, I did give you negative internets -melicant"

Fess up so I can give you a +internets for the laugh.

*edit

I see more are hopping aboard the funny train:

"Heres some more more negative internets, bitch. -seriously melicant this time"

"i hacked the system to give you even more -internets - melicant"

I'm not gonna lie, I did the first one

[Naj]

No, I did the first one.