Expanding level caps self defeating?

[FulorianC]

Originally Posted by xmod2

How did the monster shroud system from EQ1 end up working out? I like the idea of gaining something unique for taking part in the mentoring process. 1) To allow higher level characters to meaningfully revisit missed content and 2) To help make better use of the existing population.
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Pretty miserably. Nobody ever used them except as a way to delevel and powerlevel themselves in an easy area, or something of that nature. The shrouds themselves were so incredibly weak that the relative power of player vs. mob was much higher for a geared 75 than a shrouded 30. There was never any point in using it.

[mek]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

I definitely think that with each raise in level cap, or just whenever, they should decrease the amount of exp needed for the first 80% of the levels or so (so if the new cap is lvl 100 you should have a much faster exp rate for the first 80 levels). This also helps for people levelling alts or rerolling or whatever.

That is a spectacularly good idea. In WoW, the move of the cap from 60-70 made the 1-58 experience all the more excruciating, as you're stuck grinding the "old world" and its vastly inferior content. Since they've added a few million xp at the high end, it'd be nice if they shaved some off of the zzz boring 20-60 stage. Sony already does this, though, in other ways; "hot zones" and double xp weekends and the like.

[WillzZz]

Yeah, I second the early KoS solo quests. Ought to be easily soloable and get you gigantic chunks of XP that will get you into the 60's ASAP. Just go to TT solo and find all the quests you can. Almost everything will be soloable. For clarification, I hit 69 and couldn't find a group all day. I got probably 75% of 69 done that day doing those solo quests, and I had done some already. It's TONS of XP.

Some of the more difficult zones have some solo quests, too, but I don't recommend them until the 60's. It's mostly group quests, iirc.

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by mek

That is a spectacularly good idea. In WoW, the move of the cap from 60-70 made the 1-58 experience all the more excruciating, as you're stuck grinding the "old world" and its vastly inferior content. Since they've added a few million xp at the high end, it'd be nice if they shaved some off of the zzz boring 20-60 stage. Sony already does this, though, in other ways; "hot zones" and double xp weekends and the like.

Hot zones are another way. I kinda prefer the flat modifier so you're not "forced" in to zones, but on the other hand, hot zones are good for encouraging grouping in the lower levels.

[Warrik]

Personally, I am a bit tired of the leveling system and wish a game would come out with a skill based system to advance like UO had.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by Warrik

Personally, I am a bit tired of the leveling system and wish a game would come out with a skill based system to advance like UO had.

I was thinking this lately after seeing my old MMO friends spread out across LOTRO levels and thinking how much it sucks that we can't take the new folks and group them right on up to do something fun. I missed out on UO, but (and please don't laugh) SWG did a great job of letting everybody group regardless of experience; unfortunately, there wasn't all that much to do. But grabbing the new guy and taking him krayt hunting or PvPing was never a problem; he might not do great, but he could contribute something and immediately feel like he was doing something productive and making friends with lots of experienced players. More recently, EVE offers quite a bit for newer players to do alongside the old hands. Levels are a big turnoff for me these days.

[Faille]

They should have some sort of combined server for the newbie levels, so all new players start on this one server, and then once they reach the last tier or 2 of the game, they can have the option of a free transfer to the existing servers.

[Digits]

Levels narrow your playing field not only for friends, but content as well. For all the thousands of quests in WoW you probably can't have more than a dozen or two available for you at any given level, and you sure as hell don't want to bring someone who is an appalling four levels below a mob to the fight because he'd just be completely worthless.

I sure as fuck hope that the next generation of mmo designers realize how awesome skill systems are, and that making 50 levels worth of content serves only to fuck you over when people hit 50. What's the point of having all these amazing dungeons if all but three are worth anything at max level?

Fuck, man.

[Arbitrary]

Originally Posted by Faille

They should have some sort of combined server for the newbie levels, so all new players start on this one server, and then once they reach the last tier or 2 of the game, they can have the option of a free transfer to the existing servers.

Holy fuck, that's a good idea.

Shit.

I've got to write that down on my list of mechanics that must be stolen and used.

[mek]

Originally Posted by Warrik

Personally, I am a bit tired of the leveling system and wish a game would come out with a skill based system to advance like UO had.

Hmm, yes, if only there was some sort of skill-based sandbox-style PvP-oriented game like UO out there. It'd be even cooler if it was in space! Yeah, gee, I sure would like to play THAT game....

[Jait]

Originally Posted by Faille

They should have some sort of combined server for the newbie levels, so all new players start on this one server, and then once they reach the last tier or 2 of the game, they can have the option of a free transfer to the existing servers.

It's the start of a good idea, just probably not the best for EQ2. If they did offer this as an option, it would hurt folks looking to backtrack and do older content through mentoring. But a far more important problem would be shared bank slots. Gold sellers however would rejoice however as this basically allows the creation of Uber-Merchants.

And no, I don't think I'd like to see shared bank slots shut off

[WillzZz]

Shattered Galaxy has worked this way for a long time. You start on the newber planet, hit level 20 and then you can't advance until you go to the next planet. After that planet you hit the last planet. It keeps things fair in fights, and gives you a nice sense of progression for you while you're playing. It also gives you an "out" if your faction is getting curbstomped 24/7, so you go level up for a while and leave to the next one. So it helps level things out (because naturally, if you want to level you have to fight and help out your faction)

It probably only holds its sense of community due to the small userbase and lack of a need for multiple planets/servers at each tier.

[torrent495]

Originally Posted by WillTR

Shattered Galaxy has worked this way for a long time. You start on the newber planet, hit level 20 and then you can't advance until you go to the next planet. After that planet you hit the last planet. It keeps things fair in fights, and gives you a nice sense of progression for you while you're playing. It also gives you an "out" if your faction is getting curbstomped 24/7, so you go level up for a while and leave to the next one. So it helps level things out (because naturally, if you want to level you have to fight and help out your faction)

It probably only holds its sense of community due to the small userbase and lack of a need for multiple planets/servers at each tier.

That's a good idea, though probably limited in practice.

[Roz]

Originally Posted by Faille

They should have some sort of combined server for the newbie levels, so all new players start on this one server, and then once they reach the last tier or 2 of the game, they can have the option of a free transfer to the existing servers.

That's a really good idea.

I've always thought the community suffered more from games spreading out than levels increasing. Take old EQ1 for instance. You had the Ro deserts, Innothule swamp (guk) and the feerott all adjunct to each other. There was always multitudes of every level characters running past one another either going to town, killing in the newbie area, going to cazic-thule and guk for levels 15-50...basically could fit the entire original leveling game into those few zones.

But instead of digging deeper and developing lower levels of said areas for 50-60, they decided to start sprawling the world out and cutting population down on a zone by zone basis. Granted, I don't think anyone will argue that EQ didn't start going downhill until luclin, but IMO that was due to the first time that an expansion didn't make "sense". Before, you traveled on foot and boat to the new areas. In this one you are magically whisked to the moon!!

If the would have made lower levels to guk, solusek (granted there was a sol c, but well after the game was thinning out), the hole (hell they already had the entrance made down by yael for a new area on the original zone!), 1-70 traffic would have stayed in touch more. Instead, deciding to drum up completely new continents every expansion was when you starting seeing "there is 1 player in North Freeport....you".

[Arbitrary]

It would be a great system for a new game planning from the ground up. Dedicated newbie servers with free transfers seems like the concept of the tutorial taken to the logical extreme.