[EQ2] The Ultimate Newb Thread

[Man0warr]

EQ2 has a gayed up version of AAs that are quick to reach 100 cap and really arent much difference in the grand scheme of things to your character. At least certainly no-where near as rewarding as EQ1.

The AAs are pretty huge for Brigand, no experience with other classes. Increased debuff duration (Tenure) and Traumatic Swipe are amazing.

It's also pretty tedious to get to 100AAs if you are an older character. I hit 100AAs way before 70 as an Arsai, but I just had way more quests that gave AA available to me than people who were already max level when EoF came out.

[Genjiro]

The aforementioned people in my previous post would have been a very good core to build a guild around for raiding, and even though there are a lot of retarded posters here and bad players, there are some good ones too. I simply would have advertised it, had an out of guild trial period to see if the people from FoH were quality, and gone from there.

I'm not trying to shit on the guy, its a tough business leading a successful guild, I just got the "I know it all" vibe from Mistwalkers leadership when it was obvious there was no guild "charter", clear cut goals, or whatever else you want to call it. You cant lead a top guild in these games without a very defined set of goals and people willing to follow those. Occasionally you hurt peoples feelings, you might have to let people go who are good but cause too much drama, or put the guild in front of friendships, all is part of the job (and it is a job).

I'm pretty sure you could ask the leadership of any top guild out there, and its a common thread among them all. Mistwalkers wanted to be everything to everyone, which just left it with no identity. It's a noble effort to try something like that, something I would never try to make work because I already know it wont. I'm not trying to sound elitist, or arrogant or whatever, but I know firsthand what that takes and entails and if there is one thing I know it's this...

When you have good players who are good guys (MW did have several), you build the guild around them then trim the fat and go from there. Those players are diamonds in the rough in a sea of stupidity/incompetence that abound in any game. You appreciate them, treat them with respect, get to be friends and close with those people who make your guild successful, and constantly clean house of people who dont cut it. Having been an officer around some of the best guildleaders in EQ1 and now done it myself, theres definitely a right and wrong way to do things.

[Ham n Cheese]

I think a lot of guilds suffer from the problem that they do put everything on the leaders shoulders. In EQ1 my leader knew if he didn't make it home on time from work that the other officers and I would still be getting people to a spot and doing shit. I don't know why but the last few guilds I've been a part of this seems to be impossible thinking. Our leader was even our main tank, so we'd simply say "haades is MT tonight" or "dathtoal is our MT tonight" or some shit like that. Now it's like if the leader doesn't get on for a raid night the guilds of today are fucking lost and do nothing productive on their own, for the most part. I feel like if a leader had to go out of town for a week in a lot of today's guilds he'd come back to a guild where half the members were gone, loyalty is also out the window along with people's willingness to sacrifice all their free time for one game (I'm one of them)

Now I don't know the MW situation that well, so that may be nothing what it was like for you guys, so don't come flaming me saying I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm making a simple observation.

[Clowns]

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

I think a lot of guilds suffer from the problem that they do put everything on the leaders shoulders. In EQ1 my leader knew if he didn't make it home on time from work that the other officers and I would still be getting people to a spot and doing shit. I don't know why but the last few guilds I've been a part of this seems to be impossible thinking. Our leader was even our main tank, so we'd simply say "haades is MT tonight" or "dathtoal is our MT tonight" or some shit like that. Now it's like if the leader doesn't get on for a raid night the guilds of today are fucking lost and do nothing productive on their own, for the most part. I feel like if a leader had to go out of town for a week in a lot of today's guilds he'd come back to a guild where half the members were gone, loyalty is also out the window along with people's willingness to sacrifice all their free time for one game (I'm one of them)

Now I don't know the MW situation that well, so that may be nothing what it was like for you guys, so don't come flaming me saying I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm making a simple observation.

But therein lies the problem. Those types of guilds and leaders fail at establishing an effective leadership, and thus fail the guild as a whole. It kinda sucks when the leader or MT doesn't log on and the whole guild falls to shit with no purpose or direction like a mowed over anthill. How about putting some officcers in place that can also lead a raid and secondary tanks that can MT instances?

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Clowns

But therein lies the problem. Those types of guilds and leaders fail at establishing an effective leadership, and thus fail the guild as a whole. It kinda sucks when the leader or MT doesn't log on and the whole guild falls to shit with no purpose or direction like a mowed over anthill. How about putting some officcers in place that can also lead a raid and secondary tanks that can MT instances?

That's the thing. I wasn't the "Guild Leader" in the way that I made all the decisions. I found others in the guild that were on everyday, people that were excited about Mistwalkers and EQ2. I made them officers and leaders. These people also included THK. I promoted them BECAUSE I couldn't be around everyda and because I didn't have the time to devote to being the one and only leader. Now I don't know what else I could have done.

Problem was... Some of the officers/leaders couldn't get along. Later on other leaders and officers left due to these same differences. Then later on other officers/leaders left due to the perceived lack of things to do at 70. It was basically raid or mentor. So that left us with a guild watching it's leadership change form week to week from month to month. This added to the thought that we were a stepping stone guild, a place to level up before you could app to a real guild.

I don't like talking bad about people. I usually am the type of person that enjoys people and would go all out to make others have fun. That is the very reason I start these guilds. As a place people can join up, find groups, and MAYBE get organized enough to see some of the end game stuff. When we started having 20+ level 70s we started doing that. Of a bit, a month or so, we were raiding 3 times a week and things seemed great, then all of a sudden the interest dropped off.

[Ham n Cheese]

Originally Posted by Clowns

But therein lies the problem. Those types of guilds and leaders fail at establishing an effective leadership, and thus fail the guild as a whole. It kinda sucks when the leader or MT doesn't log on and the whole guild falls to shit with no purpose or direction like a mowed over anthill. How about putting some officcers in place that can also lead a raid and secondary tanks that can MT instances?

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. What problem are you talking about though? I'm saying that we had a leader and if he couldn't make it the other officers would step up to lead, and that's really how a successful guild has to work; it can't be on one person or you're asking for failure

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Braen

That's the thing. I wasn't the "Guild Leader" in the way that I made all the decisions. I found others in the guild that were on everyday, people that were excited about Mistwalkers and EQ2. I made them officers and leaders. These people also included THK. I promoted them BECAUSE I couldn't be around everyda and because I didn't have the time to devote to being the one and only leader. Now I don't know what else I could have done.

Problem was... Some of the officers/leaders couldn't get along. Later on other leaders and officers left due to these same differences. Then later on other officers/leaders left due to the perceived lack of things to do at 70. It was basically raid or mentor. So that left us with a guild watching it's leadership change form week to week from month to month. This added to the thought that we were a stepping stone guild, a place to level up before you could app to a real guild.

I don't like talking bad about people. I usually am the type of person that enjoys people and would go all out to make others have fun. That is the very reason I start these guilds. As a place people can join up, find groups, and MAYBE get organized enough to see some of the end game stuff. When we started having 20+ level 70s we started doing that. Of a bit, a month or so, we were raiding 3 times a week and things seemed great, then all of a sudden the interest dropped off.

I don't like talking bad about people, but I definately will "do my duty" when its called for. I could go line by line here, and point out where you are wrong, where you are lying, and in general what a fucked up and idiotic setup you built for the Mistwalkers, how your schmuckery, and your schmuckery alone almost assured the failure of said guild, and in general, stomp a mud whole in your ass and walk it dry, but there is little to be gained here.

I think it's clear to anyone paying attention, you have failed yet again, at forming an online (forum) guild. You are blaming the officers, you are blaming the game, and you are completely out of touch with the reality of what happened with the guild. I suppose thats to be expected given your level of commitment to the guild, you can only base your experience on what it is you actually see, you will have to take my word on it; you don't know the half of it.

It's clear how you have this set up in your memory, and how you want to project the "image" of the Mistwalkers and what happened to them, and if thats what gets you through the night, then whatever.

I and quite a few others, know the truth.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. What problem are you talking about though? I'm saying that we had a leader and if he couldn't make it the other officers would step up to lead, and that's really how a successful guild has to work; it can't be on one person or you're asking for failure

This type of system works if you promote solid, motivated officers and give them the tools and clearance to do what they need to do, in your absence. Promoting your buddy from work because he's "got yer back when yer not around" or some other guy, who only cares about his own MT gear and about running off any other up and coming tanks so there won't be competition for said gear, or promoting the guy who in his own words "isn't very good at any of this officer stuff" is clearly not the way to go.

Honestly, if you are playing such a limited amount of time as to have to promote a crew to do your job for you, you need to fucking step down and get the hell out of the way. Logging on occasionally, for 30 minutes to make some stupid declarations, make a decision that will just have to be undone after you log, fuck around with the permissions on the guild bank and thereby enable recruits to see your officer chat (which also has to be repaired once you log off) and bitching because noone has logged in to bot level your main like you "told them to" is just retarded.

I am no angel, I am just as fucked up as the next guy, but there is fucked up, and then there is FUCKED UP, an important distinction that should be noted.

[Lost Ranger]

Heh. If he did even HALF that bullshit then I guess "fad guild" really was too kind a way of putting it.

My WoW guild suffered from some of the same shit when it came to leadership. We had a guild leader who was the fucking man but if he didnt show up then thing didnt get done or they got done at a snails pace. The other officers were good people but none of them had that leadership quality and when the leader didnt show most of them just wanted it to be a "off night". I left WoW with a big smile on my face because I knew exactly where that shit was going. The second the leader needs a "break" the guild will explode.

Being a leader means being responsible for your guild. You dont make guilds that you cant devote time too. Its just fucking wrong to waste peoples time like that when you know in your heart that the guild isnt going to go anywhere. Its also shitty leadership skills when things do go to shit and you start tossing out blame in every direction but your own.

I guess to be fair to Braen though people should of seen it coming. You didnt exactly have to be a rocket scientist to know that Mistwalkers wasnt going to amount to shit. Honestly, when the core of your guild is recruited because they are a FoH community member what the fuck did you think would happen? You would have the same luck running around a newbie zone tagging anyone that looks guildless. No direction = fail. Simple as that.

[Azzikai]

The biggest issue with MW was that there was no one driving the boat. I'm sorry, Braen, that's just the reality. You can't run a guild by committee when 3/4 of the fucking committee doesn't even respond to shit in the officer forums for a week or more. MW went over a month without guild rules posted AFTER the topic had been addressed not only on the officer forums but the member forums as well. I wish I could say that was an isolated incident, it wasn't. Hell, officers wouldn't even follow the simple procedure of signing up for our raids so we knew if we would have certain classes or not.

There were all sorts of issues with MW, Braen, the least of which was officers not getting along. That bickering was a byproduct of a lot of frustration that stemmed from all the stupid crap that was allowed to continue, no matter how much it was hurting the guild as a whole.

I disagree that MW didn't have a chance as a concept. We ended up with a nice little core of people. Add in some proper recruitment, an actual set-in-stone plan for the guild and some more officers that would follow through on things? Hell, it might just have worked.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

THK's such a hero, making the declaration that Braen is FUCKED UP because he didn't take gaming as seriously as Captain Tradeskills and Housing up there.

Oh, and where were you when all of this was going on, THK? Why didn't you like, you know, talk to him, man up and say "hey dude..."? You've got such excellent foresight and recognition skills, why not nip it in the bud? Why sit around harping on a guild you used so thoroughly and completely to get where you wanted to go? Douche.

Everquest2. It's serious business when you know THE TRUTH.

[Azzikai]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

THK's such a hero, making the declaration that Braen is FUCKED UP because he didn't take gaming as seriously as Captain Tradeskills and Housing up there.

Oh, and where were you when all of this was going on, THK? Why didn't you like, you know, talk to him, man up and say "hey dude..."? You've got such excellent foresight and recognition skills, why not nip it in the bud? Why sit around harping on a guild you used so thoroughly and completely to get where you wanted to go? Douche.

Everquest2. It's serious business when you know THE TRUTH.

Remember the "guild leader" rank in MW? Remember it going away? Yeah, that might have something to do with a little chat that happened in reaction to the rest of the officers being frustrated beyond belief with the way things were going. Sadly, restructuring the way the guild was ran did little to actually fix anything.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

THK's such a hero, making the declaration that Braen is FUCKED UP because he didn't take gaming as seriously as Captain Tradeskills and Housing up there.

Oh, and where were you when all of this was going on, THK? Why didn't you like, you know, talk to him, man up and say "hey dude..."? You've got such excellent foresight and recognition skills, why not nip it in the bud? Why sit around harping on a guild you used so thoroughly and completely to get where you wanted to go? Douche.

Everquest2. It's serious business when you know THE TRUTH.

This post is LoL. I get it, you like Braene and you are rushing to his defense. Braene is fucked up, he didn't take his role as guild leader seriously, and we have Mistwalkers in it's current state to show for it.

To say that I used Mistwalkers so "thoroughly and completely" to get where I wanted to go indicates your utter lack of awareness of anything related to me, or my character in relation to the guild.

I, while am disappointed in how things ended up going for Mistwalkers, take pride in my time and efforts there, and look back fondly on the things I accomplished personally, the guild accomplished collectively, and I helped other members accomplish for themselves. You are right, my only regret is that I didn't just come right out and demand that Braene step down, be demoted, or be removed from the guild.

I didn't want to make a power play, or cause undue drama. I did the best I could, given the shit set up we had, and when there was nothing left for me to accomplish (read: It went from 3 leaders, to everyone was a leader, responsbile to noone) then I left.

I put way more into MW then I ever took out. You go right ahead and keep your head in Braene's lap though, im sure in your mind, it's worth it.

[Guiness]

double post

[Guiness]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

or some other guy, who only cares about his own MT gear and about running off any other up and coming tanks so there won't be competition for said gear

I've stayed quiet on this whole topic mostly due to the fact that I was one of the first officers to fold up shop. This was not long after THK called it quits. I'm not going to get into the THK, Braen difference of opinion fight, I consider both of you friends and both have outstanding qualities. What I will wade into is the real reason I left is what was quoted above. The above situation is what kicked the slats out from under Mistwalkers from the get go.

We the leadership allowing that kind of a power play in the formulative stages of a guild, caused us to have an enormous deficit in tanks as well as the loss of some solid players who basically (and rightfully) called bullshit on it. The unfortunate part was the afore mentioned player is a friend of mine and to his credit knowledgeable player but with a skull as thick as a fucking rock. I as well as another officer got bored of arguing with him about it, couple that to the fact that I just found the raiding kind of meh, it was pretty easy to just stop playing.

I think that this version of Mistwalkers was pretty damn successful and on the whole, a lot of fun, but this just goes to show how selfishness and ambivalence as well as the whole "hey he's my buddy, let
's make 'em an officer" ol boy network mentality can be real killer.