[WoW] Respawning trash as a game mechanic

[Teger]

This thread is pretty fucking retarded, much like most threads discussing high end content in WOW.

Trash DIFFICULTY needs to be tuned, and half the fucking 'difficulty' is the fact that really obvious bugs involving the trash still exist. If you didn't risk wiping and blowing ~10mins on rezzing on half the trash pulls in SSC and TK, nobody would be complaining.

Edit: I wish we had moderation that would prevent random idiots who haven't played WOW in months (which honestly seems like 50% of the board population) from shitting up threads discussing issues they know NOTHING about.

[Algol Devilstar]

So sorry!

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Teger

This thread is pretty fucking retarded, much like most threads discussing high end content in WOW.

Trash DIFFICULTY needs to be tuned, and half the fucking 'difficulty' is the fact that really obvious bugs involving the trash still exist. If you didn't risk wiping and blowing ~10mins on rezzing on half the trash pulls in SSC and TK, nobody would be complaining.

Edit: I wish we had moderation that would prevent random idiots who haven't played WOW in months (which honestly seems like 50% of the board population) from shitting up threads discussing issues they know NOTHING about.

Looks like you just let go of a big fat turd yourself here, champ. But feel free to call others retards.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Teger

This thread is pretty fucking retarded, much like most threads discussing high end content in WOW.

Trash DIFFICULTY needs to be tuned, and half the fucking 'difficulty' is the fact that really obvious bugs involving the trash still exist. If you didn't risk wiping and blowing ~10mins on rezzing on half the trash pulls in SSC and TK, nobody would be complaining.

Edit: I wish we had moderation that would prevent random idiots who haven't played WOW in months (which honestly seems like 50% of the board population) from shitting up threads discussing issues they know NOTHING about.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Dis

Fires of Heaven WoW Member

[Thhin]

Farming gold for repairs for raiding is tedious and not fun.
Farming consumables for raiding is tedious and not fun.
Clearing pointless trash in raids is tedious and not fun.

Why not combine them and have the trash drop good cash or BoE epics the guild can sell for $... and some potions here and there

Trash continues to be boring, but no longer pointless, and it reduces other causes of tedium. Sadly i know this will never happen, as it seems Blizzard in attempts to placate the Bnet retarded masses shits on raiders.

[Teger]

Trash respawn rates have already been adjusted to proper levels, the only thing thats left to be tuned is the HP/difficulty of the trash, which not only is being addressed in the next patch, is in many instances the result of bugs which also are being fixed.

While the trash might seem pointless it adds the urgency that is lacking because the content is instanced, and theres nothing preventing your guild from banging your head against a boss for 10 hours straight.

The only really reasonable complaint could POSSIBLY be that the epic drop rate on the trash is pretty awful, but that only really exists in SSC, and I think thats as much a result of people avoiding 90% of the trash and focusing on mobs that don't have a chance to drop anything.

Furthermore, I don't consider trash 'pointless' when it drops boss-level equivalent epics that occupy slots that don't have other alternatives (TK) or mats to high-end amazing epics crafted (SSC).

[Hal2005]

Originally Posted by dak

1. The bosses are not world spawn and are in an instanced event just for you.

2. The instance saves your progress for a whole week.

3. Short of respawns, there is real no limiting factor other than repair/consumable costs for how many attempts you can make.

What do you want this game to be? SNES Contra 3 with a unlimited lives game genie code on?

Since late 80s arcade times this is how games work. You beat a stage then you fight a boss. You get so many "lives" to do so before you have to use a "continue". If you do that you have to start the stage over. It's nothing new, adds pressure to perform on the player and longevity to the games content.

Sheesh

While the analogy is intriguing, Contra did not require you to go back and replay contra 1 and 2 plus manufacture your armor and all 40 gun munitions in order to beat level 2. You simply had to show up, and beat the challenges ONCE to progress. Thus, your off the mark.

Trash is a gimick that if done properly does add mood to the dungeon. But by that same token, trash just to waste my time is stupid and belittling. The mana leeches in Kara are perhaps the best example of just how stupid this mechanic has become; melee only mobs, when the raid game forces you to stack your group with at least 5 casting / low melee classes. Sofar WoW has yet to do trash properly, save for perhaps the bug tunnel in C'thun (where the mood was properly designed of your group of 40 vs. an Ant colony swarming your asses ) or the ballroom mobs in Kara. Most of the BC trash is and was beyond stupid, and most often a time consuming snore fest in my experience. (edit: clarity)


What blizzard should do is take a look at the most commonly done encounters, then extrapolate lessons from them. Players enjoy content that they do with their friends, or that challenges them in new innovative ways. Mob XYZ that comes in a pack of 3, 2 of which can be split, with the same skin as 2 headed dragon/zombie/whatever which does Cleave, MS, and a stacking dot has almost become an industry inside joke. Thus, it's the weakest part of the raid game, next to the stupid farming requirements and subpar itemization.

[Sheaf]

Originally Posted by Thug

Seriously, STFU about the trash. It's totally tolerable.

"Tolerable" is a bad word to use when describing a game mechanic that you think is just fine.

It's certainly not about difficulty either. Did anyone enjoy MC trash after clearing it for the hundredth time? Was it difficult at all?

If a game mechanic does not contribute in any way to the enjoyment factor of the game, it needs to be reworked. Even mechanics that annoy players such as death penalties serve a purpose. Trash in its current state is a detriment to the fun factor.

[Teger]

Trash contributes to the enjoyment factor by creating tension through artificial time limits. It's similar to enrage timers but much less of a gear check. There's a lot of things I don't enjoy individually about raiding (keying, repair costs), but they contribute to the overall experience: which I do enjoy.

Trash in its state a month ago was out of control, but the trash that will exist after next patch will be perfect, walking a fine line between too easy and too difficult, while not being too large in number to be a total nuisance.

[Sheaf]

Originally Posted by Teger

Trash contributes to the enjoyment factor by creating tension through artificial time limits. It's similar to enrage timers but much less of a gear check. There's a lot of things I don't enjoy individually about raiding (keying, repair costs), but they contribute to the overall experience: which I do enjoy.

Trash in its state a month ago was out of control, but the trash that will exist after next patch will be perfect, walking a fine line between too easy and too difficult, while not being too large in number to be a total nuisance.

Well, the vast majority of raiders seem to disagree strongly with you.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by bombayandtonic

MC -> High Trash, Low Fun
BWL -> Low Trash, High Fun
AQ -> Medium Trash, Medium Fun
Nax -> Low Trash, High Fun
Kara -> High Trash, Sucks Monkey Nuts

Anything more than BWL/Nax trash is just a crappy pacing mechanism.

This is it. I thought when BWL came out, they had learnt

[Teger]

Originally Posted by Sheaf

Well, the vast majority of raiders seem to disagree strongly with you.

The vast majority of raiders seem to not object to the concept of trash, but rather trash when its poorly tuned or too great in number. These concerns are being addressed in the upcoming patch or have already BEEN addressed. Many of the TK trash epics have been totally overhauled to the point that they're competitive gear choices/straight upgrades, and provide an incentive to clearing trash. People also seem to forget that with the new 'raid flask' system, trash in SSC will drop items which you can turn in for consumables, funding your raid effort instead of simply being a gold sink.

Edit: The reason I was bitching earlier is because half the posts in this thread are suggesting ideas that Blizzard is /already implementing/ next patch. Next patch the trash will be less difficult, lower in numbers and provide better rewards both in the form of loot AND raid consumables. What else do you want done, short of removing trash, which is not only unrealistic but a bad idea?

[Fadaar]

Originally Posted by rinthea

This is it. I thought when BWL came out, they had learnt

I didn't mind BWL trash, even the Firemaw --> other drakes trash. At least each pull had everyone doing something different. Being a Paladin was fun cause I got to spam Consecrate and run in fuckin' circles! Wheee!

[Sheaf]

Is the Kara trash being addressed? No. Imagine being in a "casual" raiding guild and learning Aran... or trying to clear the place in two nights.

The point isn't necessarily how will things be after the patch (not nearly as rosy as you make it out to be imo), but how the fuck Blizzard designed it like this in the first place.

At some point, their developers need to learn from earlier mistakes.