[WoW] Respawning trash as a game mechanic

[masteen]

I'm unclear exactly why we need a pacing mechanic on a dungeon with a week long lockout. Doesn't that "NO LOOT, SEVEN DAY!" loot nazi mechanic pace us enough?

p.s. I'd be fine with them leaving Khazakstan packed to the gills with trash if it means removing the goddamn lockout timer. Trying to put multiple runs together is not fun for a small guild.

[Rhuma]

Originally Posted by Zarcath

What guild? or what class? I was a monk. I think that would be enough explanation.

Not a very good explanation at all. In fact only a very select few bosses didn't have monk loot, which were usually caster only drops.

Seems like it was a dictatorship and you wouldn't suck your leaders dick enough to get some phat monk lewt.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Zarcath

What guild? or what class? I was a monk. I think that would be enough explanation.

SoL and PoP had tons of monk loot in the lower end zones. Hell even Velious had sweet monk gear later on, but that would probably take over 4 months to get to.

[Zarcath]

Originally Posted by Rhuma

Not a very good explanation at all. In fact only a very select few bosses didn't have monk loot, which were usually caster only drops.

Seems like it was a dictatorship and you wouldn't suck your leaders dick enough to get some phat monk lewt.

Eh...I found that most leather armor went to druids and weapons went to beast lords. I think most monks were in similiar situations.

and the 6 month thing was how long it took me to get my Silver Bracelet of Speed from Halls of Testing.

[Arrr]

but then, how does WoW keep its title as a "game"? You pay THEM money, and THEY don't work fast enough, so they make the product that you paid them for LESS fun? What the fuck kind of game is that? That's abuse.

WoW players are masochists. Blizz tells you it's "for the good of the game" for you to have less fun, and you take it. You pay them money, they shit in your frosted flakes, and they have you convinced that it's for your own good. The frosted flakes now have just enough shit in them that you appreciate the unique, nuanced flavor. Too little shit, and the cereal's too good, and only pussies want to eat good cereal. Eating shit builds character.

[Rhuma]

Originally Posted by Zarcath

Eh...I found that most leather armor went to druids and weapons went to beast lords. I think most monks were in similiar situations.

and the 6 month thing was how long it took me to get my Silver Bracelet of Speed from Halls of Testing.

You made it sound like you didn't get ANY loot for 6 months.

Druids and bst on leather gear was a problem for a short time but most patterns dropped so often that it was a moot point thanks to our good pal furor.

2hb fixed my weapon problems.

[Zarcath]

Well I think the longest period I didn't get anything was 2 months. But it might have been a case of me passing on lateral/marginal upgrades or just not being at the right raid for the right drops. Though there were those times where you didn't seem to get an upgrade for a particular slot for ages.

I'm not sure what we're talking about with WoW's loot. Are we talking about the drop frequency or item upgrades/variation?

[CnCGOD]

Dont ever remind me of the 18hour clusterfuck that was the first few fear raids on rallos zek... omg x1012141

Originally Posted by Fayvren

This is precisely the type of trash that the game should have. An encounter. You know what was good trash? PoF break-in prekunark (And just the breakin) It was hard if you didnt have decent players but once you got it down you did it once and you were done with it for the day. Make trash fewer but more interesting encounters. I really dont care if I have to do a 10-15 minute fight that doesnt drop anything to get to a boss, so long as its one fight and not a succession of 30 useless pulls over and over again.

As is Trash mobs are pretty bad at the purpose they intend to serve. If they're there to pace players so they dont just steamroll content a month after it comes out, they dont really do a good job of it. Sure it slows people down but that just means you have to have players willing to throw in extra hours per day reclearing. If you wanted to pace the rate at which players progressed through content then you'd just have to make it so the gear upgrades needed to clear later bosses in a instance were dropped by the ones earlier in the instance.

[Dandain]

Trash is not required as a pacing mechanism what so ever.

The Huhu->Emps trash was a perfect example of trash in my opinion.

5 pulls, heavy execution, your huhu NR gear served a purpose to ease it up substantially. Mastery of said trash made it a 20-25 minute clear. You were then free to wipe on Emps for the remainder of the raid. If the Emps did not die you had to clear them the next day for more attempts.

The Emps->C'thun trash was another positive implementation minus the amount. Trash that was very difficult, but never respawned, and people forget that that trash unlocked two final encounters (so you still recieved 7 boss drops after clearing that trash one time.

The last decent trash implementation is Broodlord/Fankriss because their trash was in essence just a "part" of the encounter itself.

Boss encounters should be the pacing mechanism, not an artifical lockout like original Vael or fast respawning trash. Clearing the same trash more than twice in one night is a complete downer, by the time the raid would be on the third trash clear 99% of the time everyone is wiped out and no longer playing with full awareness. There might be another way, but they have already had at least three trash styles that are ten times superior to having to reclear the same trash multiple times per night for attempts on the same boss.

[ashatumar]

Originally Posted by Oloh

...stuff...

Originally Posted by tad10

...stuff...

I think you're both right. Sense of urgency is without a doubt, a great mechanic for raid fights... but not ALL fights. The Broodlord (and even the red AQ sceptre quest to a far lesser extent) were good uses of trash/content being used as part of the encounter. The idea would be to remove it as part of the status quo, and introduce it as a dynamic.

[Lefazz]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm sure someone has made the same suggestion.

Trash is fine if it gives some significant rewards. Take SSC, for example. The trash pulls are actually pretty fun due to the difficulty -- but one would think that they should offer some pretty nice item drops. Maybe not 100% of the time, but give the trash a pool of items that are significant upgrades over previous raid zones and have a reasonable drop rate.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Dandain

Trash is not required as a pacing mechanism what so ever.

The Huhu->Emps trash was a perfect example of trash in my opinion.

5 pulls, heavy execution, your huhu NR gear served a purpose to ease it up substantially. Mastery of said trash made it a 20-25 minute clear. You were then free to wipe on Emps for the remainder of the raid. If the Emps did not die you had to clear them the next day for more attempts.

The Emps->C'thun trash was another positive implementation minus the amount. Trash that was very difficult, but never respawned, and people forget that that trash unlocked two final encounters (so you still recieved 7 boss drops after clearing that trash one time.

The last decent trash implementation is Broodlord/Fankriss because their trash was in essence just a "part" of the encounter itself.

Boss encounters should be the pacing mechanism, not an artifical lockout like original Vael or fast respawning trash. Clearing the same trash more than twice in one night is a complete downer, by the time the raid would be on the third trash clear 99% of the time everyone is wiped out and no longer playing with full awareness. There might be another way, but they have already had at least three trash styles that are ten times superior to having to reclear the same trash multiple times per night for attempts on the same boss.

Good points. Another thing I like about WoW trash (not sure how it is handled in other games and obviously instanced raiding determines much of WoW's specific realities and possibilities) is the way trash is tied to a boss so that certain chunks of trash are turned off once the related boss is dead. I think the consensus would be that trash needs to have realistic respawn associated with it, some sort of direct and permanent reward system past faction, and ideally the trash should not be not only tied to a specific boss but somehow part of the process or the boss encounter itself.

[Obtenor]

I want Vex Thal style respawns.

HURRY ROOM IS ABOUT TO RESPAWN

[Thug]

Originally Posted by Taranatar

Anyone remember the days when dungeons spawned shit right behind you when you were still fighting the next guy? VT is one place of note I can think of.

And you think this shit is hard? Pussy.

Heh, one wipe and usually you were done for the night.

Seriously, STFU about the trash. It's totally tolerable.

It doesn't matter how easy they make shit, people are always going to complain about making it easier. Eventually its going to get to the point where people complain that they have to log in to advance their character. Ohh, go ahead and laugh and then look at where things were and where they are now and you see that its not that far off.

I dont get it. I want games that are challenging, and ok granted mindless killing trash to get to the boss isnt exactly challenging, until MMORPGS become twitch based its going to be a mechanic that governs your progress through the game. (personally id love a mario/quake/wow mix of a game). I guess my biggest complaint about the trash is that its just retardedly easy to kill.

How much easier can this game get? How many time have you heard people ask in General chat where to do so and so quest? The fucking quest 99.95% of the time tells you where to go, and they still ask. Can you not fucking read? Next generation of this is to show you on the map where to go with a big blinking dot...not that its going to help apparently.

Whatever, I'd write more but theres no point, we all know untrained monkeys could play WoW and progress. We all know how fucking retardedly easy WoW is.

If the game fustrates you that much cause you have to actually push the buttons, then maybe you should just hire somebody to play it for you.

-=[ Thug ]=-

[Saban]

If the trash was "totally tolerable" we wouldn't have a multiple page thread full of people saying its not "totally tolerable".