[EQ2] Combat system discussion

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Leadsalad

Sorry, no.

Way to counter what he said

[Ravensign]

Originally Posted by Spyryt

This is an awesome idea. The "arrows", and the other graphical option which I can't recall a one-word name for and Im not even sure most people know about it but I will just call it the "fancy bracket" option, are, for lack of a better word, not immersive. Your thought is a great way to fix 95% of the mobs..

Funny, this really was in EQ. Many mobs had names that distinguished them from others as over/under cons.

Unique names of course, but also, tiger vs. tigress, or "A orc" vs "an orc", which isn't very descriptive, but people quickly learn which is the bad news one.

[Dammerung]

I play a Brigand, and I don't find myself spamming buttons any more than when I play my rogue in WoW. It's like most modern MMOs; there are classes that are spammy and classes that aren't.

[Jait]

Originally Posted by WillTR

I love my skills on my 70 Assassin =( Think I'm part of the minority, but I love EQ2 combat way more, since a little bit of player skill is involved in managing your DPS. It's not much, but atleast it's more than WoW, where most blind retarded monkeys can do the same DPS as anyone else.

I'd certainly be less likely to go back to kunark if they changed the system =/ Guess I like button mashing, or something..

Gotta agree. I play the #1 button mashing class too. The Macro system is specifically designed for those who want to stack abilities and remove some of the tedium. But I think the system is designed very, very well in the raid game. Does it need some change in lower levels? Possibly, but I really can't comment on that =/

Nice writeup tho Miele.

Fix Troubadours!

[wild_whiskey]

Some minor consolidation would be a nice change. The overall goal being to give purpose to carefully planning how you use abilities in certain situations instead of just using whichever one the CD is up on.

[Hardcore Cracka]

It seems like a middle ground where some of the useless skills were consolidated into two or three skills, instead of five or six, is the best option.

As for buffs, I don't even know. Get a vent server for your group and make the buff box tiny so you aren't distracted by blinking lights? :P

[Khalan]

I dont think Buffs and debuffs are a problem, infact being an info whore I LOVE having icons and tooltips for every single buff, debuff and ability. I like to know what things are active, and exactly what they do.

I think some of the CA could be condensed. as a ranger I have about 6-7 DD combat arts that do about the same thing.

[Miele]

Originally Posted by Zuuljin

...
Speed of combat text: Along with so many abilities, attack speed, various dots and status spells, watching the combat window is impossible. I remember in EQ1 I was able to have my combat text and chat text in the same window! Holy crap! Now in a fight, its just a blur of text, impossible to follow. Having a ton of abilities, followed immediately by auto-attack, followed by your 3-4 random dot spells + enemy damage, sometimes with 5-6 enemies on you at once thanks to the arrow system, and combat description text (You begin to cast... etc) and its just too much and is too confusing. Again, I don't even bother watching

Random skill damage: Not really sure about the idea behind this one, but its another area of confusion. Why not have an ability do X amount of damage, and each tier of the spell does X amount more? As it is now, its just confusing having a spell do a range of values, on top of random resists, which leads to confusing attacks, since your never really sure what the damage is going to be with any consistency. I like crunching numbers, being able to break down spells by their dmg/mana ratio, without having to work probability into the equation.

You raise several valid points of which I picked these 2, even if I didn't want to raise more than what I did with the opening post, to put the finger where I think we have the most lacking area, I think these deserve a bit of attention as well.
Some may like this system like WillTR, I didn't say it's not good at all, it's just that bad for some classes.
If you try playing a conjurer or a necro, it's a lot lot lot more enjoyable, becaus the pet does half of the job for you (even if 7 buffs for a pet plus 2 short duration ones...), some healers are fine, because the extra hotkeys they have are generally considered a waste of casting time and they get along with 2 hotbars of often used skills, etc.

I don't want 1 attack that includes them all so to say (even if sometimes it's desirable), but a bit of consolidation yes. I played around with macros and it helps a bit, but when the shit hits the fan, you may not want to queue up 2 attacks on a single mob, so they are not working as good as I thought.
I tend to do long sessions in game: 5 hours+, long long instances or dungeon crawls can literally make the EQ1 bard twisting seem a relaxing and fantastic thing (it gave me CTS back in the days).

There is also this problem that I define "logistic":

- I roll a class_01, let's say a fury.
- I level up and start putting spells on certain hotkeys, so I'll know that 1 and 2 are my 2 dots, 3 and 4 are the 2 direct heals, etc.
- By level 50 I added about 3 bars of hotkeys, plus one for buffs and a couple clickies like the manastone and the dolls for example. Usually my characters have about 4 and a half bars filled by the mid 40s.
- I get an uber skill at 52 that is the perfect emergency heal, Back into the fray (heals double if target is under 50% health, can't be cast on the fury himself).
- I have no clue of where to put it on my hotbars, so I have to rearrange them, all those keys I could find right away are starting to get moved around (this happens a couple times when levelling) and this all adds to the sense of confusion mnetioned above.

The combat text speed: I wish EQ2 would have a Scrolling Combat text mod, with settings and the like, at least I could filter the things I want to see and those I don't want.
Characters in EQ2 can attack as fast as 4 times per 1.5 seconds I think (approximately), plus specials, dots and so on. My combat chat window is on a hidden status and I basically never read it, that says it all.

Anyway, if EQ2 cannot anymore go out of this system, even if I hope in a tweak, I sincerely hope that devs in the future will base the measure of player skills on timed actions and strategic planning rather than quick fingers. Wodin is right that a raiding rogue in WoW does a 2-2-2-2-2-something, but at least in groups and solo it could be a bit more... creative? Make choices? I don't know if this gets the idea.

In essence I want to watch the game 90% of the time, not playing the UI 60% of the time.

[Miele]

Originally Posted by Khalan

I dont think Buffs and debuffs are a problem, infact being an info whore I LOVE having icons and tooltips for every single buff, debuff and ability. I like to know what things are active, and exactly what they do.

I think some of the CA could be condensed. as a ranger I have about 6-7 DD combat arts that do about the same thing.

Yes, but the windows are badly organized and unreadable in the heat of the battle. Separate buffs from debuffs, then separate short duration buffs (like the EQ1 bard songs window) and I'd be a lot more happy.

[WillzZz]

Originally Posted by Miele

- I have no clue of where to put it on my hotbars, so I have to rearrange them, all those keys I could find right away are starting to get moved around (this happens a couple times when levelling) and this all adds to the sense of confusion mnetioned above.

This much I can fully agree with. It is a gigantic pain to have to find a new place for the new "uber emergency" skill you just picked up, and it happens every 10 levels or so. I know when I picked up Assassinate, I had planned on where to put it. But the dozen or so other skills, including AA's, I have a hard time placing. The foresight to know how to plan out your hotbars is only gained by having played the class once prior, or by a significant time researching the class and which skills you'll need to have an empty space for. For instance, Assassinate/Decapitate ended up being my 'F' key, and I had nothing there for the longest time, but I had planned on it. My special poison ability I got from my last AA point? Well, I think that was on the 5th hotbar along the right side of my screen towards the bottom... laugh.