The Return of Neriak

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Zahrdahl

However, I'm level 41 now with 41 AA and about 260.000 status, with similar amount of quests turned in, though I'm not up to 29 collections... Do collections give that good AA? Otherwise it seems weird you have more AA considering the 'low' status (ie less HQs which give nice AA-exp) so there's something I must be missing here

Many of my completed collections came from running around zones that were too high for me, and then finishing the final pieces via broker (if they were inexpensive enough. I WONT pay 1p+ for some lame collection reward). I got at least 4 AAs and a whole level of normal xp from discovery experience in Everfrost, Feerrott, Lavastorm, Kingdom of Sky, and Isle of Ro or whatever.

[cyanbane]

Originally Posted by Jait

So as a Troubadour your entire game changes. On raids at level 50, you're going to primarily be meleeing, or doing ranged damage. By level 70, you're going to be Jester Capping folks left and right, and spot-mezzing in (non-raid) groups sans Hurricanus (I mez the adds there sometimes). You're also going to be Maestroing every 2 minutes, which means 20-30 seconds of "Daze", ie No autoattack. It's a vast change to the class. And I don't think any other class undergoes such a drastic change. I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that you really can't fully experience a Bard until you're 70 and been through the ropes.

I agree to a point, almost all the "hybrid" classes have to learn how they will fit into a raid and act dynamically based on the raid make up but I think that goes along with any class though to a point. My main is a dirge, and while I will agree minus the pos dmg vs mental dmg and dps/spell buff there isn't too much difference between the two bard classes. Much less difference than any of the other class pairs.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Jait

Actually, as a Bard you do not receive most of your class defining spells until 50+

For Troubadours that's: Jesters Cap, Precision of the Maestro, Mez, and Charm.

You do not gain lesser versions of any of these spells before 50.

Spells that I have for 20 levels (50-70) are not "defining" for a class in my opinion, thats not even 50 percent of the game your talking about Jait. When I said class defining, or rather "internals" I was more referencing group melee or casting haste, group power regen, selos etc.

Those are truly the class defining spells, you have them, from 15-70 which is a lot longer then J-cap et all. Calling J-cap etc "class defining" is like calling the rez necro's get at 48 class defining.

In the end, you end up using those spells you mention a ton, and the number of times only grows as you sit at max level, but not everyone races to max level, or even continues to play "forver" at max level, switching to an alt etc.

Healing defines Priests, Tanking defines Fighters etc.

[lumberjack]

i am rather enjoying not reading spoiler sites and sort of fumbling through things blindly

i think i am going to be a perpetual newb

[Bloodfrost]

So by turning off "Combat xp". You lvl just through discovery / quest xp?. Just trying to make sure i understand this correctly heh

[Zehn - Vhex]

Trivial Loot Code makes this game retarded still though. Thing I enjoy about WoW/LoTRO/etc...is that my high level friends don't have to gimp themselves for us to play together. Sure they can plow through shit and make it trivial...but who cares? It'll allow us to duo/trio shit that normally requires a full group and I absolutely hate pugging when leveling.

Mentoring shouldn't even have had to go in. You should have just been able to group with high level friends and been good to go. Lower the XP rate? Fine.

I guess not instancing ruins this option. All for the sake of being able to dick over other people by leapfrogging them to named mobs. Yay.

If EQ2 ever goes back and instances dungeons (With no 24 hour lockout timers...jesus what the fuck guys), gets rid of zoning, gets rid of mentoring in favor of just letting you fucking group together, and changes named/bosses to be more interesting then tank and spank...then ~maybe~ it'll be worth playing again.

At least they fixed tradeskills...somewhat.

[Man0warr]

Those are truly the class defining spells, you have them, from 15-70 which is a lot longer then J-cap et all. Calling J-cap etc "class defining" is like calling the rez necro's get at 48 class defining.

How are those class defining? Dirge/Troub are basically identical besides the type of magic damage they do until 50.

[Vatoreus]

I actually prefer mentoring to grouping w/ high levels. I find it a lot of fun to be able to go back and enjoy content that I missed/skipped and not be too powerful for it, albeit, still stronger than I would be at that level normally.

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Trivial Loot Code makes this game retarded still though. Thing I enjoy about WoW/LoTRO/etc...is that my high level friends don't have to gimp themselves for us to play together. Sure they can plow through shit and make it trivial...but who cares? It'll allow us to duo/trio shit that normally requires a full group and I absolutely hate pugging when leveling.

Mentoring shouldn't even have had to go in. You should have just been able to group with high level friends and been good to go. Lower the XP rate? Fine.

I guess not instancing ruins this option. All for the sake of being able to dick over other people by leapfrogging them to named mobs. Yay.

If EQ2 ever goes back and instances dungeons (With no 24 hour lockout timers...jesus what the fuck guys), gets rid of zoning, gets rid of mentoring in favor of just letting you fucking group together, and changes named/bosses to be more interesting then tank and spank...then ~maybe~ it'll be worth playing again.

At least they fixed tradeskills...somewhat.

I don't understand this opinion of mentoring at all. These are many things in EQ2 you could say need work or don't belong, but mentoring is not one of them. Certainly the people playing EQ2 never complain about it. The only issue that needs to change about it is the ability to mentor cross zones or from the raid window.

Gimped?! I dont' consider myself gimped at all. It allows me to play my main, get exp at a reduced rate, give a bonus to exp for my mentoree and gives them an advantage that my spells, even though lower level, are still better than they would be if I was actually the mentorees level. Also, I can use the abilities that would not be available to myself if I was actually the lower level.

Also, I, as the mentor can get credit for lower level quests I might have missed, AA exp for killing named mobs I never saw before, loot that I wouldn't get because of the "TLC" (By the way, TLC keeps you form getting "chest" loot, not normal loot.)

You mention lower exp rate in WoW, I would rather get a penalty to the HIGHER level toon AND a bonus to the lower level than little to almost non existant exp for the lower level (hi2u 5-10 exp per mob). People talk about grinding... Also, like I said before, if you haven't done the quests at the mentorees level, they can share them and you can get credit/AA for them.

Seriously, how many times in WoW do you see a level 70 with level 20s except to gimp quests? Mentoring happens all the time in EQ2. It is truely a system all games need. It allows your friends just picking up to play the game with their higher level friends at a level that is competitve, fun, allows them to LEARN the game mechanic and not just blowing through quests as fast as possible. You might like the boring "plvling" WoW allows you, but I perfer to be a little challenged if I am going to help someone. Keeps me entertained and into the group and not just clicking autoattack and watching the mobs get one shotted. /yawn

Most lockout timers are for the Raid or extreme instances. Not all instances are locked out for 24 hours. Most are 8 or 18. Depending on success or failure. Also, there are a TON of instances or contested dungeons in EQ2 and it is not hard at all to travel to an instance in a short amount of time, if you know the world.

I was in Qeynos and was ask to join a group in the Kingdom of Sky. All it took was click of the dock bell to Antonica, griffon to the closest station near the spires, wait for the spires to port to KoS (ala spires in Luclin) then run to the instance. just over 5 minutes to travel from a vanilla EQ2 city to an instance in KoS.

Rise of Kunark will lower the amount of zoning that they started in EoF. They are developing new "zones" called Regions that are MUCH bigger that what we are used to in EQ2 and can contain the 2 or 3 zone of the size we are used too.

[Jait]

Well when you guys get your 70 Troubs through all EoF content, feel free to argue with me =p Until then, get past level 20, and read some threads like this one:
Troubadors: Red Headed Stepchild of EQII

You'll also notice the lvl47 Troub who is kinda like "Wtf?" because he too doesn't understand that PotM and JC are our role.


Haste/DPS buffs are not unique to bards, neither is Mana regen, neither is stat buffs. The *only* spells unique to Troubadours are Maestro and Jester Cap. And since you will be using both of these constantly on raids at T6+, I would more than call them class defining. Those of you who think Troubadours have more utility than that, are sadly, sadly mistaken. Feel free to contact one of the other EoF+ raiding Troubadours if you don't believe me.

To the guy who said there's no difference really between "Bards" compared to other classes: Troubadours are Caster based, their buffs and spells are meant to help casters. And most of their CA's are ranged based than Dirges. Dirges help melee, they're focused on melee and don't bring much to Casters other than AA's. Out of the 19 M1's I use, only a single one is designed to help melee's more than casters. Maestro doesn't even work with Melee classes, any more than Cacophany helps Casters. There's a *huge* difference unless all you care about is mana regen and DKtM. You'll be getting a rogue with only 1/3 the DPS of a real rogue. Our job is not utility. In successful guilds, it's to play 3 specific songs and try not to get in the way.

Seriously, head on over to the boards and read up on these classes. Many of the things Im reading here show a massive misunderstanding into what classes do in EQ2. Healers heal, fighters tank etc... that one made me laugh the most.

EQ2 does not operate this way. Some healers do dmg, some exclusively ward. Some tanks will *never* have the capability to tank a raid mob, and are strictly dps. etc..etc...

Just like any MMO until you reach the endgame, you're really putting your foot in your mouth about class mechanics.

[Glaive]

I don't care if it just applies to chest loot -- Trivial Loot Code is a fucking retarded goddamn idea.

[Cuppycake]

Zehn is showing one completely opposite end of the spectrum of the way gamers think.

Bottom line is Zehn - EQ2 wasn't made for gamers like you. It's obvious to me that Everquest 2 is made with smart decisions that will appeal to the masses. What design team would say to themselves - "Hm, how can we make a mechanic so that people can rush through content and level super fast if they want to?". The ultimate goal appears to be instead, "How can we make the game fun from level 1 until level 70, and allow people to enjoy the game's content regardless what level their friends are."

Mentoring is single handedly the best thing in EQ2. Knowing that I can always mentor down and play with friends but not be overbearing and force the content to be rushed is awesome. Being able to go back and experience content like a noob again - that is fun to me. Not plowing through dungeons with ease and then selling the items to make cash. For me - that's not immersive and its not fun.

Originally Posted by Zehn/Nickypoo

Sure they can plow through shit and make it trivial...but who cares?

There's a lot of us who care. A lot of us who want to play the game as it was intended and not speed through things. I want to play with friends, but I don't want to either a) do everything for them or b) have them do everything for me. I want to work as team.

[redjunkopera]

Mentoring is single handedly the best thing in EQ2

QFT

I've spent at least 50% of my time in EQ2 mentored just foolin around having fun.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Who said anything about rushing through content? The only point to EQ2 is the level 1-69 content because there sure as shit isn't anything worth doing at level cap.

Having to find 5 people who don't suck at video games everytime I wanted to do something in EQ2 besides yet another 'Kill 24 butterflies!' quest became a ridiculous chore. Mentoring works in EQ2 because the entire game is pretty much built around it functioning. It's a fundamentally flawed system though.

But then again, that's a gripe with the entire concept of levels/xp, which I've more then made my point on.

Anyways.

Braen, 8 hours, 18 hours...it might as well be 24 hours. Maybe I'm a unique snowflake but I'm not going to do an instance before work just so I can do it again after...and if I do it after work 8 hours later I'm in bed.

But I'm an advocate for no lockout timers period. Even on raid encounters for that matter.

[Mkopec1]

No levels, no healers, no mana, no energy, no DPS no exp... I mean fuck, Zehn, are you sure youre playing the right games?