[WoW] So, when are hunters gonna be fixed?

[Teger]

Originally Posted by Malakriss

Yeah, it's absolutely horrid that hunters are right behind warlocks and mages in raid DPS. Why the hell are they even close to warriors and rogues?

We're not 'right behind warlocks and mages' we're 75% of their DPS, and on fights with AOE far less than that. Probably 60% of a rogues.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Teger

Are you seriously using BG damage meters as a justification for the class sucking dick everywhere else?

So what you are saying is that they should just say fuck the PvP part of the game, where your class already dominates, and make you fuckers even more powerful? Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[Sean]

Okay so a class should totally fucking suck at PVE because they're GOOD at PVP?

Not even great like other classes mind you - just good.

You're a fucking idiot. This isn't even worth posting on with newbies like you.

[Camerous]

Yeap cause just like EVERY other hunter I know when no one agrees with your whining about not being powerful enough you blow up and run off and sulk. Ok bye bye now. /waves good bye to the overpowered yet still whining Hunter Sean.

[Teger]

Originally Posted by Camerous

So what you are saying is that they should just say fuck the PvP part of the game, where your class already dominates, and make you fuckers even more powerful? Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Did you even read my post? Hunters don't "dominate" arenas and we're shitty at PVE. Your entire arguement is that hunters are good in battlegrounds -- something that is meaningless. I've seen a Shaman get 10x the #2 persons healing on the healing boards, better ignore that classes valid complaints too?

You're right though, I think they should ignore battlegrounds when they try to balance the classes. I'm a monster.

I wish I could have put a caveat on this thread preventing people who know nothing about the topic shitting it up.

[Northerner]

I won't say Hunters don't need work because frankly, they do. Still, 75%? Our Hunters that get in the spriest groups do just fine really and before you bitch about the shadow priest, our mages that get stuck without one on occasion tend to suck ass too for a lot of fights.

On fights where a hunter can use a pet and can get a shadow priest or even a consistent wisdom judged, they are extremely competitive. The problem is, forming groups around hunters just doesn't happen very often, even if it might be a net raid dps gain. So Hunters tend to get screwed on the buffs they need (and twice screwed because so many buffs simply don't benefit them) and then tend to suck ass in terms of dps. I still don't see them down at 75% very often though to be honest.

[Teger]

Originally Posted by Northerner

I won't say Hunters don't need work because frankly, they do. Still, 75%? Our Hunters that get in the spriest groups do just fine really and before you bitch about the shadow priest, our mages that get stuck without one on occasion tend to suck ass too for a lot of fights.

On fights where a hunter can use a pet and can get a shadow priest or even a consistent wisdom judged, they are extremely competitive. The problem is, forming groups around hunters just doesn't happen very often, even if it might be a net raid dps gain. So Hunters tend to get screwed on the buffs they need (and twice screwed because so many buffs simply don't benefit them) and then tend to suck ass in terms of dps. I still don't see them down at 75% very often though to be honest.

You stated the crux of the problem: to be competitive we have to rely on other classes. If we don't have enough shadow priests show up, its either burn a ridiculous amount of consumables or suck dick on the meters and risk wiping your guild on enrage fight. Having your classes problems addressed by specific group composition is shitty balance.

How would I fix this? Honestly, I don't know. I'd probably move Thrill of the Hunt to Tier 1 survival and buff efficiency to either be more than 10% or outright change it to have an effect such as 2/4/6/8/10 chance to restore 5% of your mana on hit, although that could be a little too strong.

Next I'd change buffs across the board, and make Battle Shout affect RAP, and have our spell damage spells (arcane shot, serpent sting) benefit from curses/% spell dmg increases. Another possibility is having windfury applied to range, which I don't think would be overpowered at all.

[Noah]

while it may be relevant to mention that hunters are stagnating ( were they originally back in a gallaxy far far away not going to be based on mana but some other mechanic but that idea got killed off? ), due to the nature of the complexity of maximizing hunter dps, damage meters alone arent necessarily a good indication of the standing of hunters currently.

more specifically, alot of hunters really suck at optimizing their damage, and yes some of the people posting here will no doubt insist that they are the most optimal hunter there is while there are competent players who make them look horrible. and honestly, given the fact that many fights have distinct qualities that favor certain classes damage output, its alot more constructive to any discussion along these lines to be far more specific than to simply say that yeah hunters are behind xxx, else its just gonna end with the typical 20 pages of cross class hate and nothing much of substance being discussed.

really i believe theres two main aspects that are of most important to this discussion :

1) the fact that it is alot more complex to squeeze the most out of a hunter's dps than pretty much any other class ( which could partially be remedied by making most abilities truely instant and not interrupting auto attacks ), and

2) the fact that hunters are spread all over the place with itemization needs - ap, agi, crit, spell damage, int, mana/5 - however, blizzard is habitually(intentionally?) bad with itemization for many classes, so certainly hunters are not alone in the category of people complaining about that

honestly, i believe addressing these two issues first would make a much more standardized result in hunter performance, which then hunters could be properly balanced around this measuring stick compared to other classes.

However, lets be realistic - i don't even know the proper way to express this : blizzard has a hard time / lack of willingness to properly balance classes and be straightforward with their intentions for how classes should compare to each other in specific areas, and if fixes are ever implemented are only done months after constant complaining by the players. This is possibly because they are so afraid of pigeon holing a class's role or standing, but honestly I think the way they have been approaching things for a long time now only increases cross-class flaming and they just have this weird back and forth of making flavor of the month builds/classes then nerfing them and etc.

In the end tho, my money says that their ambiguous approach to class balance just continues along this same way for many years to come until some other game comes out and shows them a better way to do it and then they can do the one thing that blizzard is hands down the best at - polishing the hell out of it.

sorry for long ass post.

[Noah]

another random thing i was thinking, why the hell hasn't blizzard yet implemented an optional auto attack timer bar that can be displayed? i know theres addons that have done this, but typically they aren't very accurate.

[Northerner]

I would completely agree that Hunter shot rotations are a pain in the ass but I'm presuming we are talking about Hunters that have already done their homework. It's funny sometimes though to plunk down a PvP Hunter in a raid and see just how brutal their dps is without that knowledge.

I don't like the present Hunter PvE raid mechanics at all. The shot rotations, the interactions with haste, the mana dependency... all of it pretty much pisses me off. On the occasions I do play my Hunter though (which is damn rare, I raid on my mage) I find that few of these obstacles cannot be overcome to some degree or another. The class dependence issue is one that plagues a lot of classes though actually, the big problem for Hunters is that they are dependent on the wrong classes. Their synergy is just not a good fit right now and because of that, we tend to bring two only and that includes our guild leader. Part of this still goes back to how fucked up the whole TBC mana system is though and the reliance on shadow priests as a crutch to keep the wheels spinning.

[MetalNeo]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hunters are stagnating again - it sucks. The early TBC Arcane/Multi nerf was completely uncalled for - not that reversing it would be a big enough change.

Rogues, Shadow Priests, Mages, Warlocks are all scaling incredibly well with gear. And to top that off Rogues are getting a nice glancing blows DPS boost in 2.1.

While Hunters... yeah, we're stagnating. And the pissant changes coming aren't going to do shit about it.

It's basically becoming early Naxx all over again.

Hunters never should have had mana to begin with should have gone under focus or energy like rogues...

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Teger

Did you even read my post? Hunters don't "dominate" arenas and we're shitty at PVE. Your entire arguement is that hunters are good in battlegrounds -- something that is meaningless. I've seen a Shaman get 10x the #2 persons healing on the healing boards, better ignore that classes valid complaints too?

You're right though, I think they should ignore battlegrounds when they try to balance the classes. I'm a monster.

I wish I could have put a caveat on this thread preventing people who know nothing about the topic shitting it up.

Ok I will be constructive.

When I was playing WoW just last week it was me as a 64 priest, a 62 pally, a 70 rog, a 70 war, and a 70 hunter. We did Hellfire Cit for the Pally. The hunters damage was just a little behind the Rog and destroyed the warrior and of course the pally. We would let the hunter off tank a damn mob with his pet and he would have the mob almost to 1/2 before the rog and war switched over from their target.

Don't tell me you are shitty in PvE cause that's a flat out lie. I have seen hunters routinely come in the top 10 on a raid over and over again... the ONLY time I haven't seen this is if there are more than 10 rogs, mages, and warlocks at the raid and even then it is so close between the rogs and hunters as to be indistinguishable. Also for all those fights when a rog has to sit in the back because of the cleaves and all the other ghey BS WoW mobs love to have who is still sitting their getting the EXACT same dps they were getting on every other mob? That's right! the fucking hunter.

Fuck you whiny ass bitches.

[Blumpster]

My Warrior eats Hunter face. They are not pvp gods. In the right hands they are just like every other class and can lay some smack down on your suck ass. No coming back with that Hunter is easy bullshit either because you fucking know 80% of Hunters out there suck major balls and when you come across a good one who owns you because you eat dog turds doesn't make them overpowered. It's like fucking Rogues who complain because a class beat them. I mean fuck, you put the most skilled Rogue in the game against the most skilled player of any other class and they win, easily. I'm not complaining against Rogues, because just the same as Hunters 80% of them blow fucking ass and just because l33t bad ass Jimmythestabber beat my ass to a pulp doesn't make the class overpowered, it just means he blew some cooldowns and owned my gimp ass. So man up and shut the fuck up you whiny bitches.

[Steamrice]

hunters are essentially playing a ddr mini game with their keyboard. haste changes the speed they have to mash those buttons in the right order.

loss of dps are results of .1 sec of lag or unable to flawlessly press your buttons with extreme accuracy.

oh yea and we do the least amount of damage of all dps classes who don't have to put up with this shot rotation crap.

[Sean]

I didn't want to post in this again, but I just had to.

You are painfully retarded Camerous. You just cited a a mixed group of mid 60's/70's doing the lowest level HFC single group instance as a sign of fucking raid PVE balance.

Also you are again, retarded - Rogues do not have to sit back because of cleaves or other AE abilities. For one, cleave is getting changed. For two, you assign dedicated healers and heal through those AE abilities.

Also on most fights now a days either the bosses have a close range AE and then a separate long range only AE so everyone has to get healed and takes maintenance or they have one big AE where again, everyone takes maintenance.

The whole "omg Rogues require more upkeep" is a huge bullshit arguement and completely invalid at this point in time.

Seriously - do me a favor. TRY PLAYING THE GAME BEFORE YOU MAKE BASELESS NEWBIE COMMENTS.

Go back to the fucking WoW boards where piece of shit players like you who haven't seen the inside of a TBC T5+ zone are welcome.

Fact - Hunters are stagnating at the high end (yet again) due to various issues such as mana battery dependency, itemization, and poor scaling.