Rumor - SOE to purchase VG?

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

The station pass lost value when they increased its price to equal 2 full MMOs when they barely have 2 MMOs worth playing in their stable.

It's more beneficial to most people to cancel station pass, sign up for one SOE MMO and be free to pick and choose any other MMO on the market for the same cost.

Exactly what my friend just did. He's had the Station Pass for a couple years, but has been mainly playing EQ2, but picked up Vanguard. He recently quit Vanguard, changed billing to just for EQ2, and preordered LotRO. Thanks to LotRO's founders' deal, he's now subscribed to two MMOGs from two different companies and saving $5 a month.

[Cadrid]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

I didn't say that is what I WANT to happen, I just said its a possibility

I thought I was a pessimist, but you're downright depressing.

I'm going to go listen to some Evanescence now.

[Pinchandroll]

It seems fairly clear that the people with the most heated opinions against VG and it's designers are not currently playing the game, and if they are, they are doing their best to nitpick the worst aspects of it. I say this because

a. the population isn't really that bad. There's no player tracking in the game, yet just running around leveling I can kill people constantly that I just run across. Also, the zones containing leveling hubs are often very camped and /ooc is chatty, so from my experience, I haven't felt a real lack of players like I did in shadowbane or eq on sullon zek towards the end.

b. Current game bugs are in no way game-breaking. Yes, it's annoying if you are grouped over several zones and get glitched. Yes, it's annoying when you respawn stuck in geometry and have to /stuck out of it. Yes, it's annoying when you CTD (which, at least for me, is improved vastly since release. However, in my 44 levels of fairly hardcore playing and traveling, I have yet to encounter a bug that is any more frustrating than things I've seen before in pretty much every other MMORPG I've played.

c. Most arguments recently against VG are either based on opinion (EXP is too slow! Everyone should be able to solo well! Instances are better! etc), or are unsubstantiated (hello random chart of active players, as well as this entire thread's premise).

To be honest, it's just getting annoying. There is a place for rants against a game, and those *really* should come from people who are playing a game, and have found a reason to complain. Instead, I get the impression that many people stopped playing after beta / early after release, and are hovering around waiting for any inkling that VG is struggling so they can make a new post about how much VG deserves to fail.

This isn't to say that I disagree with people complaining about the game; that's fine, and if you have complaints about the game, feel free to voice them. However, since I stopped playing WoW I don't go to every WoW thread and post about how repetitive their instances are, how similar all the evil temples look, how ridiculous the pvp is, and how much they deserve every ounce of flak that comes their way. Why not? Because it's stupid, it's rude, and it's pointless to pollute a discussion about a game with biased opinions of non-participants.

We get it, good for you, you hate Vanguard, and you're glad you quit. That doesn't mean you need to police the forums so you can pat anyone on the back who posts negatively about it. If i were to make a thread about recent changes that make some items bind-on-equip in VG, stating that it was a needed change and even though it wasn't part of the "vision," it was necessary... I KNOW I would get a host of non- or ex-players clogging up the thread with fists raised, proud to do their part as they type "I TOLD YOU SO, ."

I'm posting here because I have some time on my hands, and I know this is a hotspot for Vanguard haters right now. I know it won't change anything, because the people I'm referring to are too proud of their crusade and feel like they're sticking to to the bad guys every time they post, but anyways, there you have it. Bye.

edit: formatting issues

[Araxen]

Just face it, Vanguard is going the way of AC2, Horizons, etcs...till SOE buys them.

[Hal2005]

I would wager this conclusion was seen even from beta by a few more astute posters. The development team tried, and they should be commended for following through the best they could (and most of the group were some of the most veteran MMO dev's in the genre) but the scope and investment of VG is way, way beyond what was initially set aside in development time. There's nothing wrong with picking your cards off the table and handing the shoe to the next guy, moreso if you feel that your own reputation or that of your project team is being stifled by what you can do under capital constraints. Given the current market climate, the risk and shelf life of an MMO is a farcry from the old mid 90's. (small pun in there).


Unless management walks (unlikely), the game can only benefit from SOE ownership. Let's face it, the SOE brand needs a shot in the arm badly, with minimal R&D. VG needs funds and market exposure so it can continue operating and hope to at least meet it's first run costs. Win, win. Yes, the SOE name carries a stigma amongst gaming vets, but at least they're consistent in restructuring a project; sometimes more then once, at the expense of the Sony pocketbook.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Pinchandroll

It seems fairly clear that the people with the most heated opinions against VG and it's designers are not currently playing the game, and if they are, they are doing their best to nitpick the worst aspects of it. I say this because.

This shit cracks me up. Honestly, I want to see people like you and Brad in a new medical drama/comedy. Opening scene, they wheel some guy in on a gurney with both legs missing, shot twelve times. "Oh this really isn't that bad... don't let those nay-sayers fool you! We can have you patched up in no time...... you DO have insurance??".

I want to add the recent patch has made for some fun reading:

Prior to this patch I would ctd if playing continuously 5+ hours, however with this patch I have already crashed twice within 30 minutes just moving, nothing special. I'll see how things go but right now it doesn't look to encouraging.

Posts like this are quickly followed up by rabid Vanbois, vilifying the person as a liar for suggesting the problem is anything other than their system.

[Utnayan]

Smart move on SOE's part to make sure they can take over development if that is the case.

VG's downfall has been the people behind it. If you can put the people behind EoF behind VG and turn it around, it will be better in the long run for the all access pass.

[ChewieTobbacca]

Well SOE defenitely turned EQ2 completely around so let's see what they can do with VG

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

. . .and hopefully he will learn from the mistakes. . . . .

Arrogant people rarely do.

[Pinchandroll]

This shit cracks me up

Why? I voiced my opinion (the game is fun), gave a few reasons why I disagreed with those people preaching doom, gave some evidence from my in-game experiences, then you, for some reason, decide that's absurd enough to mock. Hmmm. Do you have any argument whatsoever, or are content to quote the preface to my argument, ignore every point I make, then make a bad analogy in hopes that other people will find it funny?

Ironic, that immediately after I post

Originally Posted by Me

I get the impression that many people stopped playing after beta / early after release, and are hovering around waiting for any inkling that VG is struggling so they can make a new post about how much VG deserves to fail.

you follow up with

Originally Posted by you

Honestly, I want to see people like you and Brad in a new medical drama/comedy. Opening scene, they wheel some guy in on a gurney with both legs missing, shot twelve times. "Oh this really isn't that bad... don't let those nay-sayers fool you! We can have you patched up in no time...... you DO have insurance??".

Completely unrelated to any game issues whatsoever? Check.
Painting the average VG player (me) to be some fanatical idiot? Check.
Ignoring any arguments made in quoted post? Check.

Posts like this are quickly followed up by rabid Vanbois, vilifying the person as a liar for suggesting the problem is anything other than their system.

I'm struggling to think of a patch for an MMO that went off without a hitch. On the whole, I would argue that this patch was a major increase in performance for the majority of players. In fact, let me counter your quote with an experience of my own: My performance has improved greatly since the latest patch. I'm running quite smoothly on highest quality, I rarely CTD anymore unless I do heavy alt-tabbing, and I am able to handle multiple people on the screen with much more ease than before. Overall, they've continued to itemize "raid" zones like Rahz Inkur, and the items there are now truly top-quality.

[Lhon]

Originally Posted by Pinchandroll

c. Most arguments recently against VG are either based on opinion (EXP is too slow! Everyone should be able to solo well! Instances are better! etc), or are unsubstantiated (hello random chart of active players, as well as this entire thread's premise).

Frankly, opinions are the only thing that matters for games. If most people's opinion is EXP is too slow, or they can't solo well enough, or the game isn't fun, then they don't subscribe, and the game fails. If you're looking for facts in a VG rumor thread, you're looking in the wrong place.

[Teger]

I think you could make an awesome analogy between the MMO and film industries. For every big-budget blockbuster which reaps huge returns (WOW), there are two-dozen moderately funded play it and forget one-shot MMOs which manage to eke out enough profit from their small to medium populations to stay alive. Then you have the flops.

I still don't know if Vanguard is a flop yet, and if they're able to inspire enough confidence in their product to actually sell it to Sony, I don't really think you can call it a failure.

I'm sure lots of people are enjoying Vanguard, but can you honestly say the game is a quality product that met or exceeded expectations? For all the hype, it really turned out to be full of hot air. I hope they can turn it around, and I think selling to Sony would be a great first step. Hell, It'd probably help box sales and help Sigil distance itself from the product.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

I think Brad should be very thankful that the problems with VG don't end his chance at participating in developing MMO's in the future, and hopefully he will learn from the mistakes.

Do you also hope for world peace?

Anyways, SoE is burning money on Vanguard just like Microsoft did and it's all because of a guy that's all show and no substance. SoE feared that Vanguard would kill EQ2 so they grabbed the chance to get their share and now they get a chance to buy the rest, so they will do that also because they are "pot committed". All of that was based on the misjudgement that Brad McQuaid could produce a good competitive MMO. The very same misjudgement that the Sigil fan-/playerbase is currently suffering from.

Brad McQuaid gets credit for producing a 3D version of the Sojourn MUD. Ever since that he has failed. His own ideas sucked and he couldn't build on his initial success. He is a one hit wonder and technically most of that hit was a cover anyways. What he is good at is promoting himself. That got him a contract with Microsoft and even a second one with SoE which can be considered as a true miracle. By now everyone should know that the Wizard of Norrath is the guy behind the curtain and he is clearly lacking supernatural powers. In comparison to the other players on the market, Fabled Aradune cons green.

[Kaljin]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Wait.. didn't Brad already say he was developing another huge MMO while he was doing VG?

I Really hope not. Every dang time I hear/read "The Vision" I get the urge to break shit.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

Arrogant people rarely do.

*shrugs*

Considering the lesson he's getting, I'm guessing he won't be quite as stubborn about certain things on his next try - if he gets one.

Whatever decisions he made that were detrimental to VG's development are well on their way out most likely. Hence this "new Vision".


Then again, it's hard to be considered a founder and revolutionary of a newer game/online genre and not be just a wee bit swell-headed.