[EVE] Ship fittings

[Simas]

Cool, thanks.

[...]

Originally Posted by Rubix

Was your question purely hypothetical or did you have a specific purpose in mind?

I'm in a battleship running level 3 missions, I primarily use it as a drone boat. I was running a myrmidon, but the domi outperforms on missions in every way. The rub is that I don't HAVE the battleship gun skills, nor do i particularly want them as I plan to go into command ships (cruiser level). So I was just kind of wandering if i was doing shitty damage and shitty tracking. This kind of makes me happy because there's at least some boon to not using the big guns.

Originally Posted by Simas

Sorry this is slightly off topic but I think im finally gonna give this game a try, just wanted to know if there is anything I can screw up in the beginning that will mess up my dude/ship whatever later on (like giving a war int in EQ or something).

Read This for a good guide to starting up. Tolanin's summery was right. perception is king for the avg pilot and int follows close behind. If you're an industrialist, a drone specialist or a trader you may change your order up a little, but most folks should get as much perception as they can (without gimping int, will too bad)

From this thread it seems clear to stay away from Am, Gallente is FoTM, and Minnies are hard to master but awesome once you do?

Dunno if i'd call gallente flavor of the month, but they are being heavily used. a quick summery (as best I have learned is)
Gallente ships are drone centric, which are odd to use. They armor tank and you can build some ships to focus 100% on tanking while the drones dish the damage. Very versitile (form my experience as a gallente pilot).
Minmatar are like you say, take a while and some skill to get better at , but rock out. very fast and hit hard.
Caldari shield tank and use missiles, both of which are poopy for pvp, so they're mainly for pve. that's a gross generalization, but it does matter.
amarr ships are incredibly simple. they laser pew pew and armor tank. they're effective, but they burn though cap pretty bad (though they don't have to carry ammo).

Is there a link to any sort of EVE dictionary, even the guides on their website are full of all this jargon I have no idea what it means, thanks for any help, sorry to newb it up.

I found [url=http://eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Glossary]this glossary[url] on the eve-wiki. it may help. also my sig has a link to one of the threads that has a bunch of the guides and resources folks point to alot.

Definately join the FOH channel. folks there are helpfull and amusing.

[Dildo Faggins]

Originally Posted by ...

Gallente ships are drone centric, which are odd to use. They armor tank and you can build some ships to focus 100% on tanking while the drones dish the damage. Very versitile (form my experience as a gallente pilot).
Minmatar are like you say, take a while and some skill to get better at , but rock out. very fast and hit hard.
Caldari shield tank and use missiles, both of which are poopy for pvp, so they're mainly for pve. that's a gross generalization, but it does matter.
amarr ships are incredibly simple. they laser pew pew and armor tank. they're effective, but they burn though cap pretty bad (though they don't have to carry ammo).

I dont quite agree with all your assumptions with the races ships.

First off, gallente are strong because their slot layouts are so average. They have enough room to armor tank, while having enough slots to fit whats necessary to pvp. Neutrons pack a massive punch in up close pvp, and rails are high dps, making their guns highly versatile. They have 3 drone ships, which have insane drones, but their other ships in the classes are fully capable of being devestating gun boats with excellent versatility.

Minmatar Are fast with good slot layout as well. Speed is to me far more important than a good tank in fleet ops. Your ability to run out of a dictor bubble, to dictate range, ect, are huge things that increase your survivability, whereas a big tank on a fleet battleship just means you take 5 seconds longer to die once primaried. Their high speed lets you choose how to fight most of the time, which gives you a substantial advantage in pvp if you take advantage of it.

Caldari missiles suck sometimes, but they are not always bad. The bad part is that caldari is that their ships are all mids and weak on lows. This means they either shield tank good or armor tank bad. Shield tanks arent typically a good idea for fleet pvp. You need the mids for mwd, sensor boosters at a minimum, and cap injectors are typically a good idea too. By the time this is all done, you have one shitty shield tank. The other route is caldari can slap tons of ewar in their mids and be ewar pwnmachines. This means two things. Their tank is going to be armor and suck, and they are going to be the first battleships to die, since nobody likes ewar, and ewar ships are ALWAYS one of the first few to be primaried.

Amarr can only do one thing in fleets with their ships: damage. They just dont have the mids it takes to be versatile, and this complete lack of versatility makes a lot of their ships vulnerable through their singlemindedness.

As long as you know what your getting into with the races, it will make you ready to accept your choice. Many people pick gallente because they are the most versatile race with solid ability to fight nearly any setup at nearly any range. Gallente ships can basically do what you want them to. Other races have to settle for more specialized roles. Minmatar ships go fast and do lots of damage, Amarr ships go slow and do lots of damage, caldari ships carry faction loot and are piloted by noobs. The are ships in every race that break the rules, and give you a change of pace, but as a generality this is true.

[Antarius]

Originally Posted by Dildo Faggins

Caldari missiles suck sometimes, but they are not always bad. The bad part is that caldari is that their ships are all mids and weak on lows. This means they either shield tank good or armor tank bad. Shield tanks arent typically a good idea for fleet pvp. You need the mids for mwd, sensor boosters at a minimum, and cap injectors are typically a good idea too. By the time this is all done, you have one shitty shield tank. The other route is caldari can slap tons of ewar in their mids and be ewar pwnmachines. This means two things. Their tank is going to be armor and suck, and they are going to be the first battleships to die, since nobody likes ewar, and ewar ships are ALWAYS one of the first few to be primaried.

Well, one thing to keep in mind if you want to go the Ewar route, is that a Cruiser can Jam just as effectively as a Battleship. The sensor strength of the attacking vessel doesn't factor into the equation for a successful jam or not.

Sure, you "might" get time to warp out in a Scorpion, but you might not, and it's a helluva lot cheaper to replace Blackbirds than it is Scorpions, it's a cheap disposable pvp ship with a very useful role.

But Gallente have a very viable EWar role too, the celestis can be a very viable and cheap ewarr platform just like the blackbird. Reducing targeting range down to 5km or so for most ships ends up working just as effectively as if you jammed them, only with sensor dampners, they don't get a chance to resist.

[Simas]

So im thinking Im going to make a Minnie PvP based type of dude when this finishes downloading and one of the guides linked recommends the following for such a build.


Build Pick Brutor for your bloodline.

Assign the additional 5 points to: +3 PER, +2 INT
For Heritage, choose Slave Child (+2 Per, +2 Will)
For Career, choose Military
For Specialization, choose Soldier

This will start you with Charisma 6, Intelligence 6, Memory 4, Perception 14, Willpower 9, plus 4 Perception from your starting Spatial Awareness IV skill

I just wanted to ask, most of what ive read, and what people have said on here, says you want Perception and Int, but this build has more Willpower than Int, can someone explain why thats good?

[...]

Originally Posted by Simas

I just wanted to ask, most of what ive read, and what people have said on here, says you want Perception and Int, but this build has more Willpower than Int, can someone explain why thats good?

gunnery and piloting is perception/willpower based. you can spend a loooong time working on those alone.

I've read a few guides saying perception>will>int if you're going to be a gun bunny

[Kazgrim]

Eh Amarr have just as viable EWar role as Gallente, though most people will disagree with that statement since TD is heavily undervalued right now. Tracking Disruptors rape gunboats. By now most people have the mantra ingrained into their brains that "Missiles = PVE, Guns = PVP" even though its not the whole picture its a decent enough generality.

It is true that Amarr's EWar cruiser and maybe even frigate platforms could probably use 1 more mid slot, but that doesn't prevent them from getting the job done. The Arbitrator is basically the Celestis + Vexor rolled into one ship, considering roles. it's no wonder that T2 versions of it are both all sorts of own (Pilgrim, Curse), that nos bonus comes out of left field but totally seals the deal.

I agree the Caldari are kinda fucked in that regard. They have the pleasure (horror?) of having the only Battleship Ewar platform of all the races...and their EWar speciality happens to trigger the most blind fury of all ewar types. Let's see:
IF Battleship THEN primary, else
IF ECM THEN Primary, else
IF Ewar THEN Primary, goto step 1

Honestly the scorpion was put in as a Joke I think. Combining the two most commonly primaried ship types (Battleships + Ewar) and giving it to a race that has fuck all to contribute otherwise in large fleet engagements (until the Rokh came along) was basically the dev's saying "man 80% of our players are caldari, lets fuck with them"

[Fog]

If you think you're going to be flying large gun-based DPS ships then perc/will is probably your thing. If you are more interested in small fast ships, missle ships, electronic warfare, or covops (or any non-combat pursuits) you will probably want int and mem more than willpower.

I'm not sure why you are complaining about the Scorpion. As a tier 1 BS it's el cheapo after insurance, so it's no problem when one explodes in a fleet fight. If they're shooting at your Scorpion, that is free extra time that your DPS battleships have to be blowing things up. I've never heard "my ship is so powerful that everyone wants to kill me" before as a complaint.

[Kazgrim]

So im thinking Im going to make a Minnie PvP based type of dude when this finishes downloading and one of the guides linked recommends the following for such a build.


Build Pick Brutor for your bloodline.

Assign the additional 5 points to: +3 PER, +2 INT
For Heritage, choose Slave Child (+2 Per, +2 Will)
For Career, choose Military
For Specialization, choose Soldier

This will start you with Charisma 6, Intelligence 6, Memory 4, Perception 14, Willpower 9, plus 4 Perception from your starting Spatial Awareness IV skill

I just wanted to ask, most of what ive read, and what people have said on here, says you want Perception and Int, but this build has more Willpower than Int, can someone explain why thats good?

Those int/mem stats are going to hurt alot in the near to mid term. Honestly unless you are planning on doing a very specific skill route that's almost entirely perception based willpower should not be valued > Int and in the very short term not even above memory.

Generally speaking, divide your willpower and your memory by 2, and add that number to your perception and your intelligence respectively. That's all they are worth the bulk of the time, as they're usually going to be secondaries to those two (there's some notable exceptions such as learning, drones, etc).

You're skill at shooting guns and your skill at flying ships are Perception but the bulk of your support skills are going to be int. Way down the line perception definitely takes over since you'll have gotten your support skills trained and will be working on long ass skills based on perception, so at that point willpower starts to be worth a shit (compared to int) but even then, I'd still say on the whole Perc > Int > Will > Mem.

Unless you know what you are doing (and since you're posting here asking about advice you found from a guide, i'm going to assume you don't) I'd suggest you do what everyone else has done in the last year and roll Achura and immediately train over to a race you actually want to fly. Actually that would probably be a pretty crappy intro for a new player, so you can stick with Minmatar if that's what you want to fly, but play around with the options until you've got a decent Int score.

I'm not sure why you are complaining about the Scorpion. As a tier 1 BS it's el cheapo after insurance, so it's no problem when one explodes in a fleet fight. If they're shooting at your Scorpion, that is free extra time that your DPS battleships have to be blowing things up. I've never heard "my ship is so powerful that everyone wants to kill me" before as a complaint.

not really complaining, I don't even fly caldari ships, just saying really. However, they aren't that cheap, 60-70 mil or so in Jita + 21.375mil for plat insurance puts it in the 80-90 mil range before modules/rigs, insurance only pays out 71.25 mil as well so you're losing a good 10-20mil on the hull without even considering cost of modules lost and heaven help you if you actually put a rig on a ship guranteed to be primaried. It isn't that the ship is powerful more like most annoying/aggravating ability in the game + virtually no tank at all. Let's just say it's not an issue of "if" they are shooting at your scorpion, its going to get shot at if you undock it.

[SquattingCow]

you can buy, fit and insure a scorp for around 100 mil, with t2 jammers and sig distort amps. In return, with decent skills, you can get an optimal of 150km, jam strength of 10 (will fry any cruiser, tackler and most battleships), and you can even fit yourself with guns and nos to help kill carriers. Pretty good deal to me, and you'll never run out of cap, unlike a blackbird.

[Fog]

In small gang PvP, a scorpion with nos and ECM - how on earth is it going to die unless you engage some massively superior force? It can just nos a tackler or two, ECM a few others, and warp right out if there is really a concerted effort to kill it. (Disclaimer: I don't fly a Scorpion, but I fly Blackbirds and I have gotten away from some hilarious situations just with lucky ECM rolls.)

In fleet PvP, isn't 20m in after-insurance loss a small price to pay to have another BS the opponents have to chew through? That's a lot cheaper than a decent T2 sniper BS, which is what they would probably be blowing up if it weren't for your Scorpion.

[Vorph]

I went with Minmatar because my irrational hatred of 40-polygon ships wouldn't allow me to start my second character as a Caldari. I didn't agree with the Goon wiki recommendation for Minmatar starting choices at all though. I went with Sebiestor / Rebels / Military / Soldier. +3 per, +2 int (though if I had it to do over again I'd go 2 per, 2 int, 1 mem).

[Simas]

Got into it tonight before reading any of that advice so I already went with what the guide told me, I've got like 18 perception or something now.

Still not really sure what the hell I'm doing but I'm having fun.

[Dildo Faggins]

Originally Posted by Fog

In small gang PvP, a scorpion with nos and ECM - how on earth is it going to die unless you engage some massively superior force? It can just nos a tackler or two, ECM a few others, and warp right out if there is really a concerted effort to kill it. (Disclaimer: I don't fly a Scorpion, but I fly Blackbirds and I have gotten away from some hilarious situations just with lucky ECM rolls.)

In fleet PvP, isn't 20m in after-insurance loss a small price to pay to have another BS the opponents have to chew through? That's a lot cheaper than a decent T2 sniper BS, which is what they would probably be blowing up if it weren't for your Scorpion.

ECCM makes ECM useless. ECCM is very good, but rarely used. If you make a habbit of fitting lots of ecm though, you will run into it.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Dildo Faggins

ECCM makes ECM useless. ECCM is very good, but rarely used. If you make a habbit of fitting lots of ecm though, you will run into it.

ECCM is only effective on battleships. Especially against a scorpion. Frigates have neither the cap, number of mid slots, nor a high enough base sensor strength to make ECCM useful.

Lets say you're in a Vagabond with an ECCM module. A Scorpion's multispec jam strength with Dispersion IV is 4.32. The chance of you being unaffected by 2 consecutive jam cycles, and thus actually being able to target and hit anything, from 2 Multispec jammers is about 47%. Chance of resisting three cycles and accomplishing something useful is 32.6%. This is not useless.

Against a Rook it's even worse, they can fit stupid amounts of ECM with the cap bonus and 7 mid slots, in small gang if the opposing team has a Rook and you're in anything smaller than a Battlecruiser, you're not accomplishing shit no matter what you have fitted.

Note that Sensor Dampening is far worse. A 6 Damp Lachesis can shut down three enemy ships simultaneously, even if all three of them have two Sensor Boosters fitted. Against enemies with no Boosters, you can take six ships out of the fight. Or you can fit 3x Damp and 3x Warp Scrambler and damp three ships out of comission AND prevent them from warping, from 50km away.