Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Camerous]

I guess it's a good thing you didn't post there.. they wouldn't just think that retards post on FoH.. they would know.

[Laerazi]

Wow, you're so clever. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

[Zehn - Vhex]

His parents got him a speak and spell for Christmas. Been putting that bitch to work.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

His parents got him a speak and spell for Christmas. Been putting that bitch to work.

Christmas hell I just got it last week! I can use really big words now too! Like condescending! retardation! patronize! smacktardiness!

[tad10]

Of course SV and FoH are both uberguild hosted sites (which makes them what sisters?) and neither is an official forum (though SV is an affiliate site and FoH is not). I don't care where Brad posts but if he is posting because he think he's going to get some good feedback he is mistaken -- whether he posts here or SV -- fuck he'd be better off posting on vgmonks or something if he wanted good advice at least he'd get some good monk specific advice ;-) Whether he posts here or SV the posts are going to get overwhelmed by the various rabid anti-VG posters (and responses to the anti-VG posts (and responses to the responses to the anti-VG posts).

The Internet what is it good for?

* * *

If market research is what he's after I suggest he talk to the current players identifiable as such through say a vgplayers login. Even something as simple as a bunch of questions with the old favorite strongly disagree -- strongly agree matrix.

I admit I fear that Brad will change the game to something I and the majority of players won't like -- the death penalty changes on test are an example of such. Why would any company change such a basic mechanic without quantifable feedback from its base that the base wanted the change?

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

2. Underpopulated servers. The reason we are enhancing the LFG system (other than it's always a good idea in general) is because it's too hard to find a group. One of the biggest reasons it's too hard to find a group is that we were overly worried the newbie yards would be over populated the first couple of weeks post-launch that we opened with too many servers. That's why we are working on better LFG tools, having to seriously consider overland teleports, etc. If a world at peak hours had 4-5k people on it, this wouldn't be nearly the problem it is.

I think this may have a sort of snow ball effect on the game. If it is hard for people to find groups they give up on the game. As more people give up on the game it gets even harder to find a group etc.

Unfortunately I think there are massive numbers of people either canceling or not playing the game anymore. A friend of mine was in a guild of 40+ people actively playing and now it sounds like hardly anyone is logging on. My guild has 20+ level 50s and 10+ lvl 45-49 people. We are ready for raid content but there is none in sight. I just wonder how long people will stay interested if they aren't interested in other spheres of the game. Two months after release and there is still 0% of the intended "20%" raid content available. It is only mentioned as being a part of their 'long term' plans for the future.

About a month ago I checked the server population on a Wednesday at 9am PST. At the time there were 736 people online my server. Today I did the same thing, at the same time, and there are only 453 people online.

That's a 40% decline in players which is pretty significant. Sure Brad can talk about how they approach 200k 'subscribers' I think it's more like they approach 200k people that have tried the game and they have a very high cancellation rate. From what I've seen in global numbers , and also from first hand player's experiences with what they have noticed happening.

On a message board based around people raiding in MMOs it gets harder and harder to try and put a good word out for the game. I think there is great content from 1-49 but that is where it ends. A lot like EQ2 I guess. It might take an expansion or two for them to really get the raid content down better...who knows at this point.

What does Brad do when he comes here? Ohh you can fight in boats in the future hooray! That's not what I'm interested in hearing about though. But if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all(raid content) I guess. They can't even get a mob that summons adds to work correctly so they probably have a long ways to go...

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by tad10

I admit I fear that Brad will change the game to something I and the majority of players won't like -- the death penalty changes on test are an example of such.

Then maybe Vanguard isn't the game for you.

[Braen]

Zing! Nice One.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

We also need to make sure there is great loot in the dungeons, that there is an altar nearby if you need to summon your corpse, make sure the penalty for summoning your corpse isn't too painful so people will take some risk and explore the depths of the larger dungeons, etc.

This is another reason for allowing the whole campfire concept for rangers or whomever is chosen. Or the allowance of small player cities, shanty towns, etc. to give players a nearby anchor or hub to work from.

I don't think the penalty needs to change, honestly, since I don't believe it's that harsh to begin with, and that point has been discussed back and forth ad nauseum. Whether or not the penalty is scaled back, make the NPC/boss/raid AI smarter, more dynamic, and with more special abilities than Stun.

And add great loot, and maybe a special crafting station/diplomatic NPC to begin a new quest line. I'd love to have a great reason to drag one of my crafting/diplomacy buddies into the depths of a dark dungeon.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

... Brad was straight up, owned up to his mistakes and apologized numerous times. I am not sure what else he can do here short of pouring gasoline on himself and striking a match.

I think he came clean and I am willing to give him another try, but rest assured if the spin machine gets cranked up and he starts talking out the side of his mouth again (like he did with the wall of text: ITS THE MARKETING AND MESSAGE ! ! !) I will be all over him like stink on shit.

He deserves, at the very least, a minor break.

Agreed. I think Sigil and Brad are having to deal with Vanguard's issues, changes in direction, mechanics, etc. His acknowledgment of mistakes made and wanting to improve on the existing game and take feedback from posters here (and hopefully on other sites as well) is a good sign, and I believe a constructive one.

I felt a little guilty for the "managing expectations" gripe, but it was a pet peeve of mine especially as the game came closer to launch.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by tad10

I admit I fear that Brad will change the game to something I and the majority of players won't like -- the death penalty changes on test are an example of such. Why would any company change such a basic mechanic without quantifiable feedback from its base that the base wanted the change?

Because they may not be reading the forums as much has looking at subscription numbers.

As many have said, just because some of us don't mind the current death penalty and other elements of the game doesn't mean others don't. The more casual players don't give their input with coming to the forums to issue their gripes - they unsubscribe, or don't purchase/subscribe to begin with.

I would mind the world travel in Vanguard more if my time were more limited to play the game. I do enjoy the travel aspect, though, and the exploration element. Not everything is linear and laid out as in other games, MMO or not. That aspect can be fun to some, frustrating to others who want a more casual experience/have limited play time.

As long as the penalties/drawbacks in the game are balanced with fun and incentives, I'm willing to stay on board.

I'm sure I sound like a total hypocrite in making these comments versus what I've said before, but you can't deny/fight the market forever.

For those of us that have different tastes, I think an alternate ruleset server is the best answer.

[MetalNeo]

Originally Posted by Tuco

Yeah in WC3 they are, but translating that to an MMO, what would a DK do that would be so different from what a shaman, paladin and warlock does?

Thats the main issue so many abilities have been intertwined already into other classes.

WoW would have been better from the start with entirely different classes on each side more so by name. Like Priest alliance then Witch Doctor for horde then just have the abilities do the same thing in most ways. With different graphics, animations, and names. Would much rather have Paladin - DK Yin Yang type thing and then Shaman more as buff/debuff versus then alliance getting SpellBreakers. Of course the thousands of nerf pages at WoW would get multiplied by 10 in my dreams for original WoW.

Hell I personally dont know how they could ever add any class at this point so many abilities are already thrown into a melting pot and handed out to other classes.

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by MetalNeo

WoW would have been better from the start with entirely different classes on each side more so by name. Like Priest alliance then Witch Doctor for horde then just have the abilities do the same thing in most ways.

That works pretty damn well in EQ2 I think. Fury for Freeport, Warden for Qeynos (both druids). Wizard for Qeynos, Warlock for Freeport, etc. There are a lot of differences between the classes but also a lot of similarities too. I like it.

[Twobit Whore]

Yeah right. It's bad enough having to listen to bitching about Fear Ward.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

I would mind the world travel in Vanguard more if my time were more limited to play the game. I do enjoy the travel aspect, though, and the exploration element. Not everything is linear and laid out as in other games, MMO or not. That aspect can be fun to some, frustrating to others who want a more casual experience/have limited play time.

I'm all in favor of limited teleports in Thestra like there is in Qalia. Makes it impossible to find a group in some areas up there.

With respect to the pop dwindling -- I haven't seen it -- in fact I've had the opposite problem everytime my group finds a nice little area (Isle of Madness this time around) it gets overrun - last week we had the run of the place last night the whole place was camped. That being said I'm sure there are issues on the low end (for the reasons pointed out above) and on other servers. And I agree that it could result in a snowball effect -- at this point if you don't start the game with a buddy you're kinda screwed for grouping until the late teens.

I'm generally against any kind of server merge but the second Euro PvE server seems to be a mistake (and a lot of the pop gone posts I've seen on SV are from that server) so I'd suggest merging the two PvE servers. With respect to the US: I'm all for allowing char transfers from the one or two lowest pop US servers to the other servers. Closing test and moving all the test chars to whatever ends up as the lowest pop server and using that as the new test (fair warning to the folks on it to allow those who don't want to remain on the new test to move). I think that should resolve pop issues with a minimum of hassle and give us a test with more than 30 chars. I'd leave and identify the other lowest pop server and permit character transfers to it for those folks out there who like low pop servers.

In any event whatever needs to be done with respect to the pop issues should be done soon.