Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by chackle

Nothing was more true for me than this tonight. With a group of 6 we went to...that island to the west of Arena, can't remember it's name, Sunset something? I experienced the worst combat lag I've ever experienced in the game, and that's saying something. It was specifically combat related, as in I could stand there with combat on and just have my usual low fps, no real issues. As soon as I attacked in any way my frames would drop to 0 for the duration of the fight, this happened on every mob. Exceptionally frustrating.

did you have a bard, and was the bard stupid/naive enough to use his debuff/lag songs

and neric your just flat out wrong, stick to bashing performance, graphics & polish instead of things you know nothing about

[kohl]

Originally Posted by rinthea

did you have a bard, and was the bard stupid/naive enough to use his debuff/lag songs

and neric your just flat out wrong, stick to bashing performance, graphics & polish instead of things you know nothing about

Whats funny is that even the staunchest VG support post at SV are dejected sounding people that recognize the plethora of issues, but have resigned themselves to trudging out the long haul. Most of these people are the ones that probably wouldn't quit playing unless Sigil/SOE actually unplugged the servers.

[splok]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Is it the money ? The hastle ? The wounded pride from EQ1 forums ? Fear ? Unable to take responsibility for that which you have birthed ?

Well, where's the benefit to having them? I really can't see any. Official forums always end up being total cesspits with a s/n ratio so unimaginably askew that finding useful info there is just a waste of time. At the very best, you just end up with hundreds of pages of the same noob questions repeated over and over, and hell, people are going to flock to community forums anyway. Just consider this: have you ever thought to yourself, "gosh! that was a really refreshing and enjoyable visit to the official WoW forums?"

There are certainly downsides to having your own forums though. It takes a non-insignificant amount of manpower to keep things running smoothly. Can you even imagine the horror of trying to keep something like the WoW forums all spic and span? (especially with a launch like VG's? or anytime something serious goes wrong?) Even if you could do it, do you really want that cesspit on your hands? If you let people bitch too much (and they always do), your game and company look shitty (and your boards turn useless anyway), but if you don't then people start breaking out the tinfoil hats and cry everywhere else about the moderation. Its lose/lose, and all for what?

If devs want to communicate with their players, they don't need a forum to do it. They can just post shit on their site (every decent fansite will have it reposted in minutes anyway). If they want communication from their players, they can look at /bug and /feedback reports and check all of the community forums that they're going to end up having to check anyway.

[chackle]

Originally Posted by rinthea

did you have a bard, and was the bard stupid/naive enough to use his debuff/lag songs

and neric your just flat out wrong, stick to bashing performance, graphics & polish instead of things you know nothing about

Played with the same group that I've played with for weeks, nothing different was done. Like I said, the lag only happened once *I* entered combat, I could stand there for the whole fight and have normal frames, as soon as I started swinging it all went to shit.

I know this is meant to be a next generation game and all, but ignoring the fluff there's got to be something wrong with the code under the bonnet. Sure it's meant to be next gen graphics but the basic shit that goes on like reporting effects and damage dealt/felt have been experienced for a decade in MMO's, why is it such a performance issue in VG?

[Neric]

Originally Posted by rinthea

and neric your just flat out wrong, stick to bashing performance, graphics & polish instead of things you know nothing about

Funny comment coming from someone who, judging from this very comment, hasn't played a good game yet.

For me Vanguard PvE played exactly like DAoC and I don't consider this to be enough. In fact I always considered DAoC PvE to be some sort of EQ light, a game for those who couldn't handle the EQ level of difficulty. PvP is a different story of course and this is where DAoC outperforms EQ by far....but who didn't know that already?

If you played DAoC and SWG before you must love Vanguard, but it doesn't mean much, you are simply lacking comparison to a good complex PvE environment.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Neric

...you are simply lacking comparison to a good complex PvE environment.

Like what? Please tell us which game thus far had the best PvE environment?

And I think your wrong, I have played SWG , DAOC and VG and I think VG is miles ahead of those two games in regards to PvE. I thought DAOC had the worst fucking PvE in any game I have played thus far.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Like what? Please tell us which game thus far had the best PvE environment?

You should probably stipulate what you consider good PvE.

For myself, I consider WOW to have the best PvE content. The art is well done within their style, and the encounters are well done. The only downfall of WOW PVE content (instances) is that after the first few times it becomes boring and trivial. And lately, the itemization sucks ass.

Before you start with the cartoonish comments about WOW's graphics. If you objectively look how the put together their dungeons with the graphics and tools the devs have available to them, within their existing art style, they do a pretty good job.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Neric

stuff

Oh come on, just say it, you think WoW PVE combat is better dont you? I have an embarrising amount of /played time in that game before I sold my account and quit. I've pretty much seen them all.

Now, where we could be going wrong is, VG PVE is bad solo, because its god damnly hard to do any adventuring post 20 solo. So your right there and I agree.
WoW raiding post MC was top notch (MC was probably good too but 100 odd runs sort of kills most good memories of that place I have). But we're yet to see how VG handles that.
VG doesnt have the same sort of 'wow moments' like the beetlejuice scene in Uldaman I'll give you that. And sure it doenst have lots of other goodies like talents or a way to make your character a little different (no attribute points dont count, sure they're good too, but 10% of talent trees). But flat out group combat is a step above.

There are many issues with VG, some are:
- no central grouping hub
- performance
- bugs
- lack of cohesion between diplomacy and adventuring
- unfinished things/areas
- travel
- lack of solo adventuring content post 20
- on and on

Combat is nowhere near the list. I'm yet to see a reason as to why anyone thinks combat is bad in VG and I think I know why. The people criticizing it have no clue.

edit: i had to add 'lack of solo adventuring content', coz this is serious

[Vinen]

Originally Posted by Neric

Funny comment coming from someone who, judging from this very comment, hasn't played a good game yet.

For me Vanguard PvE played exactly like DAoC and I don't consider this to be enough. In fact I always considered DAoC PvE to be some sort of EQ light, a game for those who couldn't handle the EQ level of difficulty. PvP is a different story of course and this is where DAoC outperforms EQ by far....but who didn't know that already?

If you played DAoC and SWG before you must love Vanguard, but it doesn't mean much, you are simply lacking comparison to a good complex PvE environment.

Nice job, "Good Game" subjective 4tw

It could be a perfectly good game to him.

I've played EQ1, WoW, FFXI, DAoC and a few other small MMO's... guess what? I enjoy Vanguard.

[Draegan]

I played VG for a month after release as a rogue and druid. Can someone here please tell me what so different about combat in VG than all the other MMOs out there? It all seems the same to me. Tank, Aggro, Healing, Spamming buttons to do damage.

What makes VG combat different?

[xmod2]

Originally Posted by Vinen

I've played EQ1, WoW, FFXI, DAoC and a few other small MMO's... guess what? I enjoy Vanguard.

Yeah so? I've seen websites where people drive nails through the head of their penis too.


For Kendrick, you said you have a free account. Do you think you would be playing if a) it wasn't free b) you hadn't worked on the game? It seems no matter how crappy a game was, I'd enjoy playing a game I worked on. If another dev house released VG, what side of the fence would you be on then?

[Kreugen]

Most of what's new about VG combat comes from having seperate offensive and defensive targets. It is most notciable for healer classes, all of which have a number of abilities meant to be using offensively at the same time they are healing, making them far and away the most unique and interesting classes to play. For example, a level 12 cleric can debuff a mobs damage and gain mana with melee attacks.

For all the rest - not much. Rescues are cool and used much more extensively than any other game. Dungeons are PACKED with roaming mobs, which really brings back the art of pulling and the need for patience vs WoW and EQ2's pre-packaged feel. Personally I prefer WoW's way, because of how brutal trash pulls can be in a 5-man heroics without having to resort to "puller fucked up" or "random packs of adds from behind" type randomness. It has its moments though, like pulling out the victory from seemlingly endless waves of mobs vs WoW's "you will fight x mobs in y waves." That's straight out of EQ1 there. Hell it even has the same bugs, when you can have a stuck or warped aggro mob somewhere sending mob after mob after you.

PS: My highest level was 20, don't quote this as gospel, heh.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Kreugen

Most of what's new about VG combat comes from having seperate offensive and defensive targets. It is most notciable for healer classes, all of which have a number of abilities meant to be using offensively at the same time they are healing, making them far and away the most unique and interesting classes to play.

For all the rest - not much. Rescues are cool and used much more extensively than any other game. Dungeons are PACKED with roaming mobs, which really brings back the art of pulling and the need for patience vs WoW and EQ2's pre-packaged feel. Personally I prefer WoW's way, because of how brutal trash pulls can be in a 5-man heroics without having to resort to "puller fucked up" or "random packs of adds from behind" type randomness. It has its moments though, like pulling out the victory from seemlingly endless waves of mobs vs WoW's "you will fight x mobs in y waves." That's straight out of EQ1 there. Hell it even has the same bugs, when you can have a stuck or warped aggro mob somewhere sending mob after mob after you.

PS: My highest level was 20, don't quote this as gospel, heh.

Yea my highest was 22 I think. I think the few dungeons I did were just about the same mechanics as any other MMO.

You are right though, the defenseive target you can have is pretty good. I was thinking the other day in LOTRO that I would love to have that option.

Though you can have a focus window in WOW and target that without switching your offensive target.

[Mkopec1]

IMO combat in VG was solid. and like Kreug said, healers were cool to play in VG rather than a buff/healbot like they were in other games.

The only thing I disliked was the animation/chatlog sync issues. One example, like any VG player could tell you, is the mob dies in your chat log 2-5 seconds before it dies on the screen. This started to piss me off twords the end. It felt unsynced and just blah next to the crisp WoW combat.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

IMO combat in VG was solid. and like Kreug said, healers were cool to play in VG rather than a buff/healbot like they were in other games.

This is where people might get confused. The mechanics of playing a healer as a buff/healbot are class mechanics, not combat mechanics. You can make an argument about VG's class mechanics being different and better in some ways than other MMO's out there.