Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Gaereth]

Originally Posted by gremlinz273

He was referring to being stuck in melee range with no escape or kiting mechanism, a common rant people have against the priest class. It really is a petty point, so ill drop it. But youll have to take my word that I understand the mechanics of that class far better than you.

All casters have options....either mitigation/bubbles, heals, mind control, fear, snare/root, pets, blink, sheep, etc, etc... something.

To say you don't have options gives the impression you don't have a clue what your talking about. Perhaps you do...but it sure doesn't appear like it.

[Wolfen]

Yeah

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Soygen

It's a shame you have to shovel through all the back and forth bullshit in between it.

One could argue that all the "back and forth bullshit" fosters posts like that from people in the "know" to "set the record straight". Not saying it's intentional, but it does seem to be a by product.

[Kendrick]

Of course, according to some people over on SV, I've just come out of the woodwork and I'm shilling for Vanguard now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Filthgrinder]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

Of course, according to some people over on SV, I've just come out of the woodwork and I'm shilling for Vanguard now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

BWAHAHAHA I just went over there and read about what a shill you are.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Pre 60 WoW mobs that have special abilities and are different? Let's see:

Deadmines: Smite, Shredder
RFK: The giant boar, final boss
SM: Arcanist, Herod, Whitemane and the Lord Commander. All three are interesting and unique fights.
RFD: The Lich, the boss with the ton of skeleton adds
Z'F: Gazrilla, the whole Pyramid defence battle, Antu'sul
Uldaman: The giant, the final boss which is a very nice scripted fight, probably the best pre 60 5 man fight.
Maraudon: Princess, Noxxius
Sunken Temple: Eranikus, Hakkar
Blackrock Depths: Emperor & Princess, Arena, giant elemental guy near the start, the Seven event
,
See those are all pre 60, and not even getting into the 60 battles and none of those are common mobs found in the dungeon with one more dot or more health and one added ability. I find it hilarious (and sad) that people find it fun to camp mobs for 1+ hours in order to spawn a tougher mob that drops loot. I've never camped mob camps in WoW with the hope of having a rare spawn drop, and having to constantly do that would piss me off majorly.

Well if thats what you consider unique & special mob fights, VG has plenty, of at least as good boss fights as those on the way to max level cap.

Your also taking what I said a little out of context. When I said, that the only thing VG currently does to replace instances, is farm x tokens to summon a boss. That doesn not mean its the only way to see a boss. Its ok pre 50 for this sort of thing to happen. In fact it works well. What I was trying to say, was this will be a disaster if its the way its implemented in raid game.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Korbal

Wow, you need to be fucking banned. You are by far worse than Utnayan or Twobit.

Yeah cause heaven forbid someone not like WoW right? Away with you WoW retard! Back down into your pit! Back I say least you infect others with your stupidity!

Originally Posted by Kasi

Herod - He is not a mob type or skin that shows up earlier in the dungeon. He has some unique abilities like his whirlwind that no one else in armory has. He also summons adds at the end of the fight.

Commander/Whitemane - Hey it's a scripted fight, one of the better ones in fact. Does Vanguard even have anything like this? From what Hachima and others say, nope. It's just instead of fighting murloc you fight a named murloc with a different color skin.

Princess - Once again a unique mob. No one in Maraudon is like her. She has several unique abilities and is actually a pretty fun fight.

Uldaman - Umm, bitching about this fight? It's considered one of the best fights in 5 mans in WoW and complaining about this really hurts your point and makes you look like a Vanboi. This guy activates several groups of adds at certain times with the addition of having the constant statues spawn.

Smite - Another good fight.

Smite is a basic fight in every way but he stuns and picks up another weapon. That makes that a good fight? You are easily amused.

The Uldaman fight is considered one of the best 5man fights? By who? Every one I ever did it was like /yawn, myself included. Hurts my point? My point is the fights you listed are just like fights in every other game I ever played.

Herod is a human warrior... please tell me how that is not used all through SM. I will give you that the whirlwind attack did add to the encounter but not enough for me to froth at the mouth over it.

The Commander.. again a human warrior... and the whore is a female priest.. tell me how they are exceptional? He dies then you gotta kill him again after she rezes him... how do you considered that such a great fight?

Using your ideas on what makes a great fight I guess all the bosses in Eq, Eq2, DAoC, SWGs, AO, SB, and VG all were great fights cause hey most of them all used unique boss skins! *rolls eyes*

If you are that easily impressed then WoW is truly the game for you.

[MetalNeo]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Wow sucks right now. Tons of game design errors. This is a fucking Vanguard thread - now shut the fuck up and quit derailing with your seething bullshit of calling me out on the carpet for not posting about WoW in a Vanguard thread. It's people like you and Gnome Eater that are the ones that cause the shitheap here. And none other.

Edit: Thanks for deleting Gnome Eater's post.

Seriously can you put this hate onto other games as well...

I fortold long ago about how Madden Football gameplay worsens and at some point Id have a small playbook yet have the ability to change my teams consession stands prices.

O how I felt vindicated, spread the hate Ut let the entire gaming world feel it.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

long list of goals that were not archieved

So you wanted to make it bigger and better than anything. You certainly managed to make it bigger, but size doesn't mean much, if it's nothing but empty space. Did you make it better? Nope, the feeling you get from playing isn't much different to other games. Sure, there is stuff like diplomacy, but if that was a stand-alone game, it would fail. People don't play Vanguard because of diplomacy.

In my opinion your modular approach had to fail. You just tried to copy features from other games and expected that mix to work. There is more to it though. The way you analyze the problems makes me think that you don't see what the real problem is. My favorite comparison is snare and fear. Both are abilities that are more or less useful on their own, but together they give you a whole new set of options. That was a small example to show the bigger picture. Gameplay-features need to work together for more than just the addition of components. It's that sort of chemistry that's missing from Vanguard.

Huge world plus tons of races plus tons of classes plus excel-sheet class ballance and a few NPCs to kill alone is not the way it works. Reducing MMOs to just that is a clear mistake. Designing the game with the goal to make it a one way street without any chance to deviate from the main path nor think outside the box is a recipe for disaster.

It's the gameplay that sucks, don't you see it? Your game is missing both, the intellectual as well as the social challenge and that's why it's a failure. Gameplay was such a minor factor in the equation, that you could even completely replace it during the Beta. The poor performance is just the final nail in the coffin and if you think that hardware will catch on, you are wrong again. Even the hardcore fanbois will have a tough time waiting that long and the playerbase will thin out along the way and with them the cashflow will thin out too. All you can rely on is a playerbase of people who came from even worse games like SWG for example. They might see an improvement even if in reality there is none and they might still have hope, because they know how much a game can change within a few patches although they should know that it's unlikely that the really good stuff that should have been there in the first place gets patched in later. How many second chances does Sigil want to have?

Vanguard as it is now is just a huge more or less fluid 3D world with a "hotfix" as gameplay. In a way, it's the legitimate next generation follow-up to Luclin. Cudos to Brad and his Luclin dev-team, they continued right where they left. Not the ideal way to show continuity though....

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

Of course, according to some people over on SV, I've just come out of the woodwork and I'm shilling for Vanguard now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Kend, would you share your thoughts and observations on Sigil not hosting their own forums ? As I recall, the decision to do that for EQI really pissed a LOT of people off, a LOT. Why they would go and do it again just boggles the mind.

Is it a control thing ? A money thing ? I know they say its a "community involvment" thing, but I don't think I buy that.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Kend, would you share your thoughts and observations on Sigil not hosting their own forums ? As I recall, the decision to do that for EQI really pissed a LOT of people off, a LOT. Why they would go and do it again just boggles the mind.

Is it a control thing ? A money thing ? I know they say its a "community involvment" thing, but I don't think I buy that.

Would you host forums when you know you are releasing a game not even 1/2 finished? Me neither.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Would you host forums when you know you are releasing a game not even 1/2 finished? Me neither.

While that's a good answer, I have to look back on EQ1 and that they did the exact same thing, but that game was not (more or less) in the same boat as VG is today. Trying to get to the bottom of why a company would feel thats a better way to go their hosting their own. So many people have said that Wow has set the standard that others should strive to meet and exceed, and with 8.5 million users +, they have no problem hosting their own forums.

I just don't see how you can not have your own forums.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Kend, would you share your thoughts and observations on Sigil not hosting their own forums ? As I recall, the decision to do that for EQI really pissed a LOT of people off, a LOT. Why they would go and do it again just boggles the mind. that.

This is pretty easy, they even said as much if you get past the PR spin. The majority of vanbois are total retards, and the level of rhetoric on their official boards was slightly below that found in a special ed class.

It also functioned as an echo chamber, where the whiners sounded off each other and drowned out any productive posts. This meant that if a newcome who was ensure if he wanted to pick up the game or not made the mistake of reading the boards he'd get this completely skewed impression of the game.

The boards basically became absolutely hostile to anyone who did not express a complete reverence to Brad and to to the very old outdated FAQ.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

This is pretty easy, they even said as much if you get past the PR spin. The majority of vanbois are total retards, and the level of rhetoric on their official boards was slightly below that found in a special ed class.

It also functioned as an echo chamber, where the whiners sounded off each other and drowned out any productive posts. This meant that if a newcome who was ensure if he wanted to pick up the game or not made the mistake of reading the boards he'd get this completely skewed impression of the game.

The boards basically became absolutely hostile to anyone who did not express a complete reverence to Brad and to to the very old outdated FAQ.

Okay, but how is Silky Venom any different then what the offical forums would look like ? Why push your "dirty laundry" off on someone else (fansite) in the name of community building ?

Those same people you refer to as "spec ed" are now posting on SV's site, and if Sigil had their own forums, they would be posting there. The signal to noise ratio over there seems about normal, so I will say "bzzz, wrong answer".

Is it the money ? The hastle ? The wounded pride from EQ1 forums ? Fear ? Unable to take responsibility for that which you have birthed ?

Surely someone has the inside poop on this, and I am not talking the "official response inside poop", I am talking the "the real reason" type poop.

And that, is a loot of poop.

[chackle]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

I don't think you're going to see dramatic gains in performance via code tweaking in the future, there's a limit to what can be done (and they've done a hell of a lot already), but I think the hardware is catching up, and even with older hardware it's still playable for many.

From my point of view, that's Vanguard's biggest shortcoming. Poor performance is real for many. Gameplay decisions, art style, etc, are subjective, some like it, some don't. But it's hard to decide if you like it or not if you simply can't run the game.

Nothing was more true for me than this tonight. With a group of 6 we went to...that island to the west of Arena, can't remember it's name, Sunset something? I experienced the worst combat lag I've ever experienced in the game, and that's saying something. It was specifically combat related, as in I could stand there with combat on and just have my usual low fps, no real issues. As soon as I attacked in any way my frames would drop to 0 for the duration of the fight, this happened on every mob. Exceptionally frustrating.