Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Hachima]

Too many posts get made without any substance. At least with a lot of UT's posts he addresses something specific. Wether the content is true or not he at leasts focuses on specific points.

What would be nice is some type of system like Slashdot uses. Posts get modded up or down and people can filter as they like. With 100 page threads I think this is something that would encourage devs to even consider taking a look. If a thread is pre modded it saves them a lot of time sorting through the junk posts and the posts with actual relative information. Users with a background of highly modded posts get the privilege of starting a post with a higher mod point. It's a nice way of turning a thread into something with some quality even when people post nonsense in it.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by rinthea

(yes with moderation and a 'fear of banstick' for those who make shit up and lie) it will continue to exist.

You're going to ban Brad ? I don't think so. As req pointed out, good discussion DOES occur here with devs, and good threads do happen here, including industry reps. It's when they spin, lie, try to get our moneys, and treat us like dumb fuck dollar signs that the shit goes out the window. I really don't think there needs to be a seperate section for the devs to post, I think there maybe needs to be a policy of "take off your coporate spin hat" before posting here type rule.

Hartsman does it, and he doesn't get flamed to shit and back. Perhaps we should be looking at who is causing the meltdown, rather then the end result. It's cause and effect, and it all started with Brad and his threads about how great his game was, including seperate brand new threads everytime he got some new screenshots together.

Everything else after that, is consequence.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Here's an idea -

Excellent idea. I agree whole heartedly.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

You're going to ban Brad ? I don't think so.

I think that would be the main problem. All the moderation would be aimed at the people posing questions and comments and not at the devs. Not that many of the devs would need it, but I think a large amount of spin would go unchecked while people being critical of it would be squashed.

Honestly, I don't see why Brad or Sigil or Vanguard should be what brings about a change to these forums that have existed through much worse in the last 5 years. The game isn't special at all.. it's just another mediocre MMO on the station pass and it wouldn't get a fraction of the attention it does if Brad wasn't at the helm. Erronius is right. He brought it on himself, and while some of us (myself included, along with the fervant "supporters") only perpetuated the cycle of 'he said, she said' bullshit, it's not something that requires drastic changes in the foundation of foh forums.

[xmod2]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Tons of good discussion goes on. The "Ohmygod this forum is sucking and I wish it was the good old days and people are ruining everything and nobody discusses things anymore and EJ is are the greatest forums now cuz we don't crunch steel warrior numbers anymore!" people are mostly morons by and by.

Utnayan, the Hiram Key, etc...aren't much of a problem. Far less then the panic buttons we have posting anyways. They're pretty easy to ignore. Ever notice how the vast majority of the "OMG NOBODY CONTRIBUTES ANYTHING SCREW UTTNAYAN!!!" people haven't had a constructive post in months?

Anyways. I can see why Tigole/Furor were asked not to post on fan sites, it just creates a riot on the official forums. However, lacking an official site, we don't want nor care for spin posts. "Everything is fine, Sadaam is alive and well" posts from Brad are to be spat upon.

In short, if you want anybody to consider your devs seriously, then don't treat your fansites like a front page for marketing. Man up and make your own forums for that bullshit. Brad made the conscious decision to not have official forums so various community sites would feel more 'attached' to the game or some stupid shit like that. How does that trite cliche go? You made your own bed, now lie in it?

This.


I don't care if people are meeting with other lurkers and writing essays on the state of the forums and oh god what are we going to do?!

Grow a pair. There is nothing on this board that is impossible to ignore or is so outrageous that much needs to change. If people can't handle a few people talking shit about their favourite game, then "maybe this board isn't for you".

Brad comes here and post some thinly veiled bullshit while rallying the troops and saying point blank that he's just advertising here. Frankly, I think he should be fucking banned. At least other posters attempt to contribute to the community. Why don't you tell him to buy some banner ads if he's so worried about capitalizing on your impressions? Add that to the fact that the vanguard fans get all bitchy with sand in their vaginas whenever someone dares talk shit about their fabulous game. I really don't think they realize that once the blood is in the water, the sharks are going to come out and take shots at you just because you're being a bitch.

Personally, I don't even give a fuck about Vanguard. I only tend to side with the "haters" because all of the vanbois are the exact type of mouth-breathing idiots I come here to avoid.

Oh and remember. Those who seek power are not the kind of people you want to have it.

[ntangent]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think that would be the main problem. All the moderation would be aimed at the people posing questions and comments and not at the devs. Not that many of the devs would need it, but I think a large amount of spin would go unchecked while people being critical of it would be squashed.

See, that's the thing. The people asking the questions & making VALID AND USEFUL comments shouldn't be moderated at all, even as crack-addled as Utnayen can come across as. The people who need moderated are those that choose to mindlessly flame without making any sort of contribution, even if it's just debunking the bullshit.

[Whoknows]

It is true of almost all corporations that they don't let their employees speak publicly about their products/services without approval. Nino posting here of course is being curtailed because any decent corporation has armies of lawyers and public relations folks who throw fits when employees speak out without their knowing and approval. The fact that Nino was here posting for so long is a surprise to me. Especially with the rampant nonsense that gets spewed here all the time when certain topics are brought up. Its a shame as this is one of the few places you use to be able to get some direct response from developers. Now we have, it seems, most of the Sigil/Soe folks gone. We use to get Blizzard guys here, but they're also gone. Wish we had more moderation to curtail all the wild speculations and crazy conspiracy stories here, but thats not to be I suppose.

[Nattac]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think that would be the main problem. All the moderation would be aimed at the people posing questions and comments and not at the devs. Not that many of the devs would need it, but I think a large amount of spin would go unchecked while people being critical of it would be squashed.

Honestly, I don't see why Brad or Sigil or Vanguard should be what brings about a change to these forums that have existed through much worse in the last 5 years. The game isn't special at all.. it's just another mediocre MMO on the station pass and it wouldn't get a fraction of the attention it does if Brad wasn't at the helm. Erronius is right. He brought it on himself, and while some of us (myself included, along with the fervant "supporters") only perpetuated the cycle of 'he said, she said' bullshit, it's not something that requires drastic changes in the foundation of foh forums.

Definitly agree

I was thinking the samething.. WoW, Eq2 "don't think EvE really gets hit"
Don't get bashed nearly as hard =/ Just because one game is getting bitch slapped.. i don't think we should hand them a babys bottle

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by ntangent

See, that's the thing. The people asking the questions & making VALID AND USEFUL comments shouldn't be moderated at all, even as crack-addled as Utnayen can come across as. The people who need moderated are those that choose to mindlessly flame without making any sort of contribution, even if it's just debunking the bullshit.

However if you're gonna ban the out right flaming you need to also ban the out right fanboyism.

As much as I find these flame wars very entertaining, I find the discussions of MO gameplay more entertaining. It depends on where you want to go with this medium of discussion. Free for all, or moderated debate? I personally feel more comfortable with a free for all collection of haters, fanboi's and people who like to discuss that stand in the middle. It's what makes this place the best MMO forum on the net.

If you're gonna have a dev corner with discussion, you also have to allow for the rickshaw of shills as well. That should be easily done anyway.

[Roa]

Brad's not the one raining fire and brimstone here. Sure he brings corporate spin but I'd rather that go unchecked than the current system where a small group of people go off on him like he personally came over and raped one of their family members. There's a difference between checking the corporate spin and fagging up threads with "YOU FUCKING LIED TO US I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR FIRST BORN."

I like Req's idea, but I also think this forum specifically more clearly defined posting rules and stronger moderation. Ut brings up good points, but we don't need to hear them ad nauseum, nor do we need to hear the 5 posts afterwards telling Ut to stfu.

[Cadrid]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think that would be the main problem. All the moderation would be aimed at the people posing questions and comments and not at the devs.

While developers and those with the inside info are highly appreciated on this board, they are residents like the rest of us and must abide by the rules. It's not difficult (as has been pointed out, Hartsman, Nino and Curt can do it) and I'm pretty sure the moderators could handle Requiem saying "Hey, folks, devs are not above the rules. No free advertising, no jerkassery, no exceptions."

[Sneaky]

I don't think an additional forum, especially with the kind of ruleset Requiem talks about, would be a good thing. There have been plenty posts here detailing why.

I also don't think you should start to pull out the ban-stick.

Are there tools to disallow someone from posting in a specific thread again? Maybe that's all that is needed. Start with personal attacks, post only to flame, post without intention of moving the thread into a good direction - and you will be locked out of that thread for good. The discussion will have to go on without you.

Minimum amount of moderation needed, no bans needed.

[Filthgrinder]

It's a good idea requiem, but unfortunately there is alot of stuff from games that simple cannot be discussed publically - either during development or after. Many companies do not allow their staff to talk on pubic boards unless it's just a "hey, thanks for liking the game" etc etc and they specifically hire community managers to handle that side of things, due to the possiblity of some dev or angry employee saying something that could reflect poorly against the represented company. There's so many wonky NDA's that employees have to sign, and so many of these employees never read or understand the power that these NDA's really have.

10-11 years ago, fatbabies was an experiment in having an open forum where devs could talk, and that went horribly wrong. I remember people getting witch hunted from their positions by angry upper management from companies like Nintendo and Microsoft.

These days, working developers have pretty much gone underground and hang out in password protected forums where members are "invite only" and they have to use their real names and real pictures as their avatars. Even developers can be fanatical raging assholes, so this safe measure keeps that element in check.

just my 2 cents

[DickTrickle]

I support the idea of thread-specific bans if that's technically possible. It feels like a nice compromise and would actually be quite effective.

[Stroker Ace]

PUT IN A VOTING SYSTEM

Just put in a voting system for posts kind of like Slashdot. Anything below the threshold will get filtered out/minimized. If someone amasses too many shitty votes suspend their account. If people abuse the voting system and just vote people down for not liking them or just to abuse the vote system, suspend their account. Just have this feature available in this forum. Might get a little rowdy in Screenshots.

I love reading posts in this forum, I hardly ever post here, but for the past 2 years or so it's just been 1/2 shitty hate posts and 1/2 actual posts I would read. I have learned the names of a lot of people I just scroll past when I see their posts. But a system besides ignore might be better overall.