Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by rinthea

if your going to bend over and pull your pants down, you've got to expect someoens going to walk past and slide it in

Kind of like how it felt after you bought Vanguard?

[Danth]

"Is this death thing a joke, or am I misunderstanding it?"

At one time Vanguard was described as a slower-paced game with a lengthy leveling curve, relatively harsh death penalty, tactical combat, and generally more of a challenge than its counterparts. As it stands, the current game has a fairly short leveling curve (quicker than most MMORPG's other than WoW), easy death penalty that's becomming easier, fast combat that's more button-mashy than any other PC game I've ever played, and a near total lack of challenge, at least prior to the level cap. At 44 I have yet to encounter anything even as difficult as 'The Deadmines' in WoW. The Vanguard of today seems as though it underwent a bit of a metamorphosis.

I'm not saying all the changes are necessarily 'bad' per se--they certainly broaden the game's appeal--but nothing comes without a tradeoff. I wonder how much more polished and complete-feeling Vanguard would have been had the game not undergone so many changes to basic systems. Personally I think the game is acceptable as-is, but I also think I might have liked the 'other' Vanguard better. In their attempt to please everybody, Sigil better be careful not to wind up with a product that doesn't really please anybody.

Danth

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

No need to say anything. Also, this is a second sentence!

It wasn't a one liner, I was actually pretty worried. For a while there it seemed like Cam was in a flat spin he could not recover from and headed out to sea. I am actually glad he came around.

As for you, oh master of the cheap seats, you keep right on trucking. Each according to his gifts and all

[Gaereth]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Perhaps when VG interest dies off we can get back to just straight MMO discussion and flames. *shrugs* I think VG hurt this board because people were looking for something else and this was the next great thing but it just didn't deliver on what it should have and that pissed a lot of folks off, including me, and made for a very explosive atmosphere.

I don't think it was so much VG as the cult of people that sprang up around it....on either side. I honestly don't think most of what people call the 'haters' were actually bashing the game....they were after the people that, no matter what was happening, said the game was amazingly perfect or would be anytime soon. It became a clash of ideology and had very, very little to do with the game itself.

Think about it....when people brought honest points to the table...did either side discuss or simply try to bolster their position??

Thats not the game....thats people being silly.

[Drtyrm]

That's people being people. No harm, no foul. Group hug.

If you really want to see flames, try any thread on "Is Tom Brady a "Great" Quarterback?"

[Twobit Whore]

Of course he is great. A handful of rings, tons of great performances. No, he may not be the flashiest or put up the gaudiest numbers, but hell, he went to disneyland.. and banged supermodels. How much greater can you get!?

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

It wasn't a one liner, I was actually pretty worried. For a while there it seemed like Cam was in a flat spin he could not recover from and headed out to sea. I am actually glad he came around.

You don't seem to realize that you are (were) on opposite sides of the spectrum, and while Cam has come to a more unbiased and objective view of the game you're still in retard central way out in left field. So yeah, congrats to Cam, but maybe you should think about taking a similar approach.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Rayne

I have no idea why you would think I was being defensive. I was pointing out an observation. So there really isn't any reason for me to "look credible". Are we reading the same board here?

"Absolutist views" abound in Vanguard threads. And more times than not when its a complaint about the game, its almost always insisted upon that the entire experience that led to the conclusion be explained in detail, as if some crucial bit of information might somehow redeem the face of the game. Which in a nutshell, is what Draegan was pointing out. So, Cuppy said 15 instead of 14. Big deal. Look at the underlying circumstances that were basically "demanded" of her to uncover that shocking revelation that completely absolves Vanguard of any and all shortcomings

I'd argue that Draegan's observation was pretty spot on.

Funny, I seem to remember Utnayan back in beta wanting people to break NDA to give detailed positive information about the game. He was the original head of the "Vanguard Inquisition".

I and a number of others who enjoy playing the game openly acknowledge shortcomings of the game. How many times must this be repeated? Not all who like the game think it is perfect... get over yourself.

I never looked to absolve the game or blame Cuppy. However, I don't consider her experience the end-all, be-all of Vanguard knowledge. Her opinion, however valid, is still limited to her experience, which was minimal.

I understand that many didn't find the hook for the game, which should cause the devs concern considering the tastes and experience of many on the board. Instead of beating dead horses, come up with something constructive on how that can be changed/improved (*cough* general availability of lore *cough*) or quit badgering people.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

I don't think it was so much VG as the cult of people that sprang up around it....on either side. I honestly don't think most of what people call the 'haters' were actually bashing the game....they were after the people that, no matter what was happening, said the game was amazingly perfect or would be anytime soon. It became a clash of ideology and had very, very little to do with the game itself.

Think about it....when people brought honest points to the table...did either side discuss or simply try to bolster their position??

Thats not the game....thats people being silly.

QFT


I honestly can't remember too many discussions I've had in recent memory, even including ones concerning religion or politics, that have this kind of polarizing effect on people, myself included.

Funny you should mention the phrase "cult".

"Ar...a...dune, Ar...a...dune ..."

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

Funny, I seem to remember Utnayan back in beta wanting people to break NDA to give detailed positive information about the game. He was the original head of the "Vanguard Inquisition".

I think the main issue with that is that Ut (or whoever else) would give something specific (outdated or not) and the retort would be 'bullshit, you don't know what you are talking about' and that's it. No reasoning as to why it's bullshit, just that it is. Of course some people knew it was probably more true than false, but you still had a contingent of people that would stand up and flat-out deny it.

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

I never looked to absolve the game or blame Cuppy. However, I don't consider her experience the end-all, be-all of Vanguard knowledge.

Uhm, I don't consider myself the be-all end-all of ANY knowledge of any subject. I'd certainly hope no one else thinks so...

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

Her opinion, however valid, is still limited to her experience.

Einstein? Is that you?!?

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

Uhm, I don't consider myself the be-all end-all of ANY knowledge of any subject. I'd certainly hope no one else thinks so...

Einstein? Is that you?!?

Only by day. By night I'm Captain Obvious

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by UnchainedAcolyte

Funny, I seem to remember Utnayan back in beta wanting people to break NDA to give detailed positive information about the game. He was the original head of the "Vanguard Inquisition".

And the only reason why I said that was because during that time every vanboi on the internet was saying only a few people who hated McQuaid were breaking NDA and all the others under NDA were playing it too much to come to the forums or didn't want to lose the account they had due to such a fun experience.

So I asked people to post what they thought was great about it.

And then I heard crickets.

And then the game shipped.

And it tanked so hard Webster called McQuaid to verify the new meaning of the word.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

And the only reason why I said that was because during that time every vanboi on the internet was saying only a few people who hated McQuaid were breaking NDA and all the others under NDA were playing it too much to come to the forums or didn't want to lose the account they had due to such a fun experience.

So I asked people to post what they thought was great about it.

And then I heard crickets.

That's incredibly stupid even by your standards.

People who liked the game, or who thought the game was promising, probably took the NDA they signed and sent seriously. People who didn't like the game and who didn't give a shit about it railed against it.

Since the 'punishment' for talking more often than not was being banned from beta, the people who actually enjoyed their time in beta did not want to risk their account by breaking a legally binding contract (we can debate the legality of NDAs another time if you'd like).

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

That's incredibly stupid even by your standards.

People who liked the game, or who thought the game was promising, probably took the NDA they signed and sent seriously. People who didn't like the game and who didn't give a shit about it railed against it.

I laughed at the game everytime I logged in since beta 3. After I signed it, I didn't say a thing until it was lifted. Of course by then, I didn't need to.

I am just telling you why I wanted people to break into the positive. So that lame vanboi excuse could be squashed.

Course it doesn't stop them from going from one excuse to another. I swear there is a secret handbook somewhere out there that these people can look at for the next page of excuses. Kind of like those Amway sales guys that are trained to overcome any objection to their scam.