Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Nairbog]

EQ's world was vastly more interesting than SWG's. I find it funny that he complains about empty space in VG when he came from SWG. The amount of empty space in the finished areas is perfectly acceptable IMO. I like the large feel of the world and I don't expect them to cram content in every bit of the world. Not only would it be impossible, but it would feel artificial. Worlds have plenty of empty space.

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by Nairbog

That reviewer doesn't seem like he spent much time actually playing the game. He complained about the grind which is funny because it's obvious from the review that he hasn't played past level 10 or so. There is no "grind" (i.e. having to kill mobs for exp and nothing else) until you start hitting your 20's and even then you have the option to travel the world to get more quests. Up until then though, from my experience, you can advance solely through questing. Sure it might take longer to reach a level than what he was used to in WoW, but if you're doing new content the whole time then is that really a grind? VG is only a grind if you let it be one, there is plenty to see and do at most levels (40+ needs work) you just have to take the initiative. I am surprised that he found the Tursh progression so boring, but then again, it must be because he never got past level 10, when you can begin the riftseeker's torrent quests which are engaging as is the dungeon.

He does have some valid points though. Population is relatively low, they could have used less servers. If you are not in the popular areas that people seem to gravitate to you will have trouble finding groups. This is a shame because a dissappointing amount of content goes mostly unused. Some starting areas are definitely higher quality than others, though I don't see why he included Tursh as low quality and Dark Elves as high quality. As for the story... he has a point here but he also didn't give the game enough of a chance. If you do all the quests in a region you have a pretty good idea of what is going on lore-wise in that area. If you do diplomacy, you can get tidbits about the history of the area and overarching storylines. Admittedly, I think they need to get some of the lore that is only accessed by diplomats out to adventurers in some way.

Just curious Cuppy, what level have you reached in VG?

That was one of my major personal complaints with VG There were some really cool dungeons that were totally unused. People just flok to one area...but I suppose that's more a beef with people than VG since they would do that in any game.

[Twobit Whore]

I think you people ragging on SWG missed his point entirely. Since you didn't read it there, let me quote it for you here.

Over time, I find that some of my ideas and opinions in the MMO genre have shifted. For instance, I adored SWG from the first time I logged in. It had gamebreaking bugs, glaring oversights, and design/balance flaws galore. Some of the bugs were almost impossible for me to believe. Quests didn’t work. Weird character states (like “Ghosting” where you seemed to be in the game, but weren’t, and had to wait an hour or so for your character to unload before playing again) abounded. Corpses disappeared before you could find them. (If you think SWG didn’t have corpse runs, you didn’t play early enough.) Crafting recipes simply could not be made because recipes would not load. And the list goes on… Why did I put up with it? It was my first MMORPG (aside from MUDs). It was an earlier time in the history of MMOs; I think I could argue that SWG was the first of the “second-generation” (in the mainstream) of these games. And on top of that, it was Star Wars. This whole paragraph now strikes me as a lot of justification for “So I’m being inconsistent in my game evaluations.” Such is life.

[kcxiv]

THat blog is pretty off. I mean, some of it may be true to some extent, but to say its empty is pretty false. There are some area's where its empty, but what do people expect a mob every 3 meters? I though some of the npc population in some area's is to damn much.

Anyways, anyone that really played Vanguard to a decent level knows that his blog is pretty off in alot of area's..


Only cool starting newbie area i ever seen was Nek forest, newbie log for life!

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by Nairbog

That reviewer doesn't seem like he spent much time actually playing the game.

How long can you actually play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is better spent elsewhere? Remember that sentence.

Originally Posted by Nairbog

Just curious Cuppy, what level have you reached in VG?

Level 15 bard. Reference above.

Anyway, not sure if this has been posted. Here's a video of player housing from WarCry. That's something I LOVE!

Vanguard WarCry : News : Vanguard: Housing Video

[r.gun]

The housing is definately something that could be really cool! Wish I had money to buy a house... lol

[Seths]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

How long can you actually play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is better spent elsewhere? Remember that sentence.

How little can you play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is best served writing a diatribe against it that will become source material for other's evidence that the game fails?

[Nairbog]

What city did you start in and what was your content progression path? Cuppy once again just curious because I think a lot of players have different experiences in the game simply due to the fact that they spend time in boring areas/dungeons.

[dechire]

Originally Posted by Seths

How little can you play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is best served writing a diatribe against it that will become source material for other's evidence that the game fails?

At what level should a game be fun? Cuz i'm going to have to go with Level 1.

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by Seths

How little can you play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is best served writing a diatribe against it that will become source material for other's evidence that the game fails?

Its a personal blog. If you go there expecting anything more than opinions, you shouldn't be reading blogs.

Originally Posted by Nairbog

What city did you start in and what was your content progression path? Cuppy once again just curious because I think a lot of players have different experiences in the game simply due to the fact that they spend time in boring areas/dungeons.

Your logic is a little flawed. Why are there so many boring areas and dungeons in the first place? Oops, I picked the wrong race...I should have KNOWN that the Raki starting area sucked...*rolls eyes*

Anyway, I played a Raki Psionicist, so I started in Cael Brael. I progressed in a linear fashion as the quests lead me, but I can't remember the names since its been a month since I've logged in. I also started a Dark Elf Blood Mage, but I got bored with her by level 5. I tried out a Troll Blood Mage, and I liked their starting area a little more but she was only level 8 when I stopped playing.

I have no beefs with VG if people like it. It wasn't for me for a few reasons. I couldn't get it to run nicely on my computer which frustrated me. I felt that it required a lot more time than I really have to put into it, considering I'm having more fun in EQ2. And I felt that it wasn't polished enough - which I know will change. I plan to give it another shot in the future if I get any more time, get bored with the other games I'm playing, when they improve performance more and fix the glitches. I understand that a lot of people are having fun with it, it just wasn't for me. =)

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Seths

How little can you play a game that you're not enjoying before you feel your time is best served writing a diatribe against it that will become source material for other's evidence that the game fails?

I am not really sure what you are getting at here, if people try something and don't like it, they tend to want to "warn" others so they don't have the same poor experience as they did.

How they handle that communication varies from person to person, but I don't think judging how much time they spent "suffering" as an indicator of the validity of their statements really makes any sense.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by dechire

At what level should a game be fun? Cuz i'm going to have to go with Level 1.

You obviously don't understand The Vision -- fun can't be acquired at level 1, but instead is a "carrot" that keeps you playing to reach the higher levels when the fun starts. It makes the "fun" more meaningful because you had to work to get it instead of getting it handed to you on a silver-platter like WoW and its instant-gratification model.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Slick Willey

You obviously don't understand The Vision -- fun can't be acquired at level 1, but instead is a "carrot" that keeps you playing to reach the higher levels when the fun starts. It makes the "fun" more meaningful because you had to work to get it instead of getting it handed to you on a silver-platter like WoW and its instant-gratification model.

Is that sort of like "the real game starts at 60" ?

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

Your logic is a little flawed. Why are there so many boring areas and dungeons in the first place? Oops, I picked the wrong race...I should have KNOWN that the Raki starting area sucked...*rolls eyes*

I agree. I started an Orc and it was a ghost town in Kojan. I was quickly bored by level 14 and gave it up. Obviously, I should have KNOWN that Kojan sucked and that you shouldn't play an Orc unless you want the faction penalty and a crappy starting area.

[Nairbog]

I don't see how my "logic" is flawed. It was just an observation that different people tend to have different experiences with the game based on how they progress through content. It wasn't an argument. The content with the best exp/loot is often the most boring. Personally I prefer to try out new dungeons and areas constantly to change things up so I don't get bored, regardless of how "efficient" it is. You're right that there is a lot of "weak" content in the game, and all throughout beta this was one of my main complaints. I didn't see the point in investing so much time on quantity over quality. They finally figured out that people want interesting content around beta 3 though and pumped out quite a bit of quality stuff in that time period, more so than any other MMORPG I've played.

Frankly though, the starting areas depending on where you go have some of the weaker content in Vanguard. The dungeons tend to be smaller, and the content less interesting. There are exceptions though, the half elf newbie progression was fantastic. The Ra'Jin stronghold is an excellent dungeon. The raki progression did feel a bit too linear to me, and the starting dungeon is less than impressive. The city is neat though heh. I'm curious since you got the highest level with your bard, what places did you go to with her?

EDIT: While I agree they could be better, what exactly is it about the VG starting areas that are any different from other popular MMO's like WoW? In WoW it was mini-dungeons only until your first instance which you progressed to around the time you start progressing to interesting dungeons in Vanguard. I'm not sure how the Raki or Orc starting area for example are terrible, they're not amazing but they're "satisfactory."