Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Eternal]

It gave people a high. And I am completely serious, it was some endorphins. Bottom line, it was more than a game for some, a phenomenon of sorts. It is a consensus among many around here that this high will never be back. Obviously then all that passive/aggressive instanity follows.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Eternal

It gave people a high. And I am completely serious, it was some endorphins. Bottom line, it was more than a game for some, a phenomenon of sorts. It is a consensus among many around here that this high will never be back. Obviously then all that passive/aggressive instanity follows.

Any idea what the source of that high was? The gameplay didn't seem special to me...was it just the newness of the genre, and that by being 3d it drew people in more than UO could?

[Wolfen]

If you wanted to play an MMO back then, you only had two real choices - UO and EQ. The newness of the genre also had something to do with it. I know that the first time I logged into EQ beta I was enthralled by the experience and remained that way for a long time.

In my opinion, the players are what make a game. Back then, everyone was playing EQ. Servers were full, many friends were made, game drama, no other online game to play equaled an amazing time I will never forget.

[xmod2]

Originally Posted by Eternal

It gave people a high. And I am completely serious, it was some endorphins. Bottom line, it was more than a game for some, a phenomenon of sorts. It is a consensus among many around here that this high will never be back. Obviously then all that passive/aggressive instanity follows.

I have EQ running in the background right now and the high is still there in short bursts.

[Usha Starchild]

UO was the best game ever period. The only reason it got crappy was Designer Dragon (Raph Koster) decided to kill the old rep system, lock the whole game down and make it cater to noobs and tailors.

If anyone could recreate the amount of freedom UO had in a 3d mmorpg with the same basic rule set as the original UO (pre rep patch/pre tramel fel) they would have something I would bet could challenge Wow in the long run.

What other games could kill someone, trap their ghost with boxes you made, cut their body up, keep their head and cook the rest of them on a fire you buily by gathering wood from a nearby tree. You got some beef jerky and pissed off a 7x GM who was riding by and earned a point in camping.

[abbujaba]

The gameplay was special in EQ. I guess I started playing UO after it started to go downhill, wasn't really impressed with it.

[Eternal]

Not having played the original EQ, one thing it did seem to have for me is strong Lore. I say this based on my EQ2 experience. The gods and everything, dunno, just seems to be well done for being original and not purchased IP.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

How bout this, show me one fucking post By UT bashing any other game that is not related to SoE, Sigil or Mcquade.

How about this? How about you find the post where I have said that EOF is one hell of an EQ2 expansion, the game has turned around, and is a fucking blast to play? I am playing the game right now in a Goon Guild. They released one awesome expansion. Period. I am happy with the direction I think the company is taking. EoF is a step in the right direction. It was mostly finished on retail release, tweaked well, content was gone over a couple times and not released in a shit state and passed over after retail -- and overall - they made leaps and bounds in improvements. Smedley emailed me himself stating they were taking a new approach, and they would be releasing less expansions (one per year) of high quality instead of one every 6 months being rushed to shit. So far, it paid itself off. If SOE continues, they will redeem themselves. I have said this time and time again.

Get off your fucking Ut hating soapbox and read the content of my threads - which go to companies FIXING this bullshit behavior. McQuaid gets my wrath because the guy comes here and spews bullshit fluff and misleads people. SOE is NOT getting my wrath right now because they released one fucking hell of an expansion that deserves kudos. I always said that if SOE turned around they would not get flamed by me. I said this time and time again. And I have proved it now that they released EoF in a solid state.

So drop your Ut rips on anything SOE/Sigil/MCQuaid releated - because that is flat out fucking false. I rip on companies that release shit software, like Vanguard, covered up in a sliming pile of dogshit marketing that ends up fooling the majority of it's customer base. Sigil and MCQuaid are the target now BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING IT AS WE SPEAK. SOE isn't on my radar right now - they have made awesome improvements. Flatly, I do not see any of the other designers here making the claims that Brad has made... So if you want to start fucking talking about Blizzard faults, Mythic faults, Turbines faults, or anyone elses - I do not see them using FOH as a glorfied up your ass marketing hole like McQuaid has been... If they had been, I would rip the shit out of them too if they completely failed to deliver.

Comprende?

[Usha Starchild]

Originally Posted by Wolfen

Too bad UO2 got canned. It was definitely going to be....different. I think I still have a gameplay video of it stored away somewhere. One of the best PR video's I've ever seen from an MMO company.

It got canned for two reasons.

1) A few important people at EA were not feeling the Todd Mcfarlane graphics.
2) They didnt want to compete with themselfs when UO was still going strong. (This was the bigger reason)

How do I know this? I was at the meeting when they cancelled it, I was heartbroken. I still have a full printout of the design docs for Uo2 at home.

[nustabut]

You know Hiram Key, its fine to have an interest in video games, namely MMORPGS, and post and discuss them online like most of the people do here, I dont usually judge people about how they spend their lifes and what hobbies they have. But you, and others that do the same kind of shit you do, (Ut) on this board, it is pretty fucked up. It goes beyond a healthy obsession with MMORPGs, I don't under stand what people like you are trying to achieve with your constant trolling. Is it internet fame? Does something about having your name known by a bunch of nerds on the internet tickle your jollies or what??

Either way I find it hard to believe that someone with a life as you described has so much time to write such long, monotonous, repetitive "Well thought out" ( as you put it ) posts, most of the time rehashing the same shit that was being discussed on this board months ago, or just bashing Vanguard and or SoE for the fuck of it. How can someone like you that is so successful be so bothered by the injustices done by SoE and Sigil that you do what you do? As a long time lurker, and never really a poster I can say that people like you and Ut have done a good job at contributing absolutely nothing to this board. There is constructive criticism, criticism, and then the shit you guys do, which is shit up threads until they are rickshaw worthy.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Usha Starchild

It got canned for two reasons.

1) A few important people at EA were not feeling the Todd Mcfarlane graphics.
2) They didnt want to compete with themselfs when UO was still going strong. (This was the bigger reason)

How do I know this? I was at the meeting when they cancelled it, I was heartbroken. I still have a full printout of the design docs for Uo2 at home.

I don't suppose you know why EA cancelled Ultima X: Odyssey? Seems to me that game had just enough WoW in it combined with UO to take the market by storm.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Sigil and MCQuaid are the target now BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING IT AS WE SPEAK. SOE isn't on my radar right now - they have made awesome improvements. Flatly, I do not see any of the other designers here making the claims that Brad has made... So if you want to start fucking talking about Blizzard faults, Mythic faults, Turbines faults, or anyone elses - I do not see them using FOH as a glorfied up your ass marketing hole like McQuaid has been... If they had been, I would rip the shit out of them too if they completely failed to deliver.

Yeah a lot of people feel the same way...but why do it? Do you think being loud enough will have an effect and cause developers visiting this forum to think twice before they pull Brad's used car salesman routine? I'd love to think this was the case, but more than anything I think the fact that his half-finished game is likely to get steamrolled by LOTRO at the end of the week is what's going to get people to sit up and pay attention to the condition in which they release their product.

[Wolfen]

Who exactly made Vanguard ship early? Was it Brad that made that decision? Or was it Smed and SOE telling him to launch or else?

If SOE ordered him to release it early, I'd have to give Brad a small break. If not, then he's getting what he deserves.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Wolfen

Who exactly made Vanguard ship early? Was it Brad that made that decision? Or was it Smed and SOE telling him to launch or else?

If SOE ordered him to release it early, I'd have to give Brad a small break. If not, then he's getting what he deserves.

Catch 22 of a lifetime. If SOE came on and said you need to release it at this point, I still cannot blame them much because Sigil managed to squander God only knows how much of Microsoft's cash. MS doesn't just dump people for the sake of dumping them. They are a good publisher to work with - until you fuck them over - then it is lights out. They understand creativity and will give leg room to do just that - but if you do not have something solid for them after 4 years, forget it. You're getting your ass reamed out and rightly so.

If anything, I think the blame of the general perception of the game and the flat out lies told goes to McQuaid. The way this game was handled in such a piss poor state from a production standpoint goes to Jeff Butler.

[Eternal]

Originally Posted by Wolfen

Who exactly made Vanguard ship early? Was it Brad that made that decision? Or was it Smed and SOE telling him to launch or else?

If SOE ordered him to release it early, I'd have to give Brad a small break. If not, then he's getting what he deserves.

Ultimately it is squarly on him for not managing the budget. He had enough time and money, and to be quite frank, sometimes the past is a good predictor of the future: only going live forced them to face the realities and work with the focus and intensity required. If SOE told em to cruise till July the game would have released broken as well. SOE managers knew it and said might as well let em swim.

As an aside, anyone remembers Brad getting all puffy when someone told him to fire some of his developers? Well, it was easy to be the Manager that Feels and Cares(tm) when you're paying with MSFT/SOE cash. And showed his inability to crack the whip, consequences be damned. And hence the state of game.