Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Samflam]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

But yeah, if you want to discuss what they should have done, it's quite obvious that smaller world + meaningful content that is working and polished > huge world with unfinished content.

Not to be rude, but I'm having trouble reconciling this statement with what you said above:

I think one of the things they even got close to right was having enough content that people could level up in entirely different areas.

Which I do agree with, to an extent. I'm thinking of levelling a BE paladin but the idea of my millionth jaunt through the barrens makes my anus pucker up with dread. However. variety of content at the mid-level should never come at the expense of a severe lack of content later on (which I'm sure everyone would agree on).

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Samflam

Not to be rude, but I'm having trouble reconciling this statement with what you said above:

There is line between having enough content that people can be somewhat diverse and having so much content that much of it is a) wasted and b) unfinished.

They could cut the dungeons in half or even 1/3rd and people would still say they don't have a chance to see everything.

[Samflam]

Gotcha.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

I kinda agree on the housing issue with kohl. I see it being nothing more than a "thing to have" with no purpose really.

I think houses in mmorpgs should have a central puropse, like they had in Shadowbane. Anything else is just fluff.

But one question Kohl, why does a game have to be revolutionary to be fun?

I think a game certainly does *not* have to be revolutionary, because as other people have pointed out there are a lot of concepts floating around that just haven't been really nailed by a game yet.
I think that is one of the core issues with VG; tech for the sake of tech. At the very least, a game's tech shouldn't be a stumbling block or impose limitations.

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by kohl

Not sure how this is new. You can cast spells while moving in other games; ie instant cast spells in WoW, etc.

This one I thought was new actually, but I didn't know shit about UO since I was playing GemstoneIII at the time. In VG you can cast any spell while moving. I'm not talking about instant casts.

You can have a 6 second spell, start casting it while moving and continuing to move. It slows down your speed a bit, but does not stop the spell. Now in and of itself this isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread or anything but it was a cool feature that removed a bit of an annoyance. Ever be kiting in EQ and cast only to have moved a bit and it faded. Sure eventually most of us learned the trick of turning a bit before casting to ensure a full stop, or any other trick but this eliminates that. It's cool and something I think more games should copy.

As far as the houses and boats and shit with UO, well, you got me there. I never played UO nor ever really heard anything about it until AFTER I started EQ. By that point all I heard was general banter from "general chat" kinda things which made it sound like hardcore pvp game. I was fairly invovled with EQ by the time I heard this and don't much care for PvP so the combination of those made me never develope and interest to try the game Probably should have as I've tried most MMORPG's since EQ.

And I do agree that part of VG's problem was not living up to it's own hype. I bought the game even though I'm "paying for some greedy arrogant cock-magnet of a developer" or whatever the hell some people call them, because I'm at a point in life where I can afford buying the game if I want just to try it. I liked it. Honestly. It didn't addict me for 10 hour days like EQ did but I've changed alot as a person and I'm not sure any game could do that to me ever again. I've just matured. But that's not even relevant anyway.

The game has flaws, and different people like different shit. We've all learned that by now. The things I listed were just little, sometimes big, things that originally attracted me to VG. I hope that they get all of those things in place and fixed because they are only going to help the game itself and future games if people can see an example of some of these things work, and work well.

We all keep backseat talking about what would make a good MMORPG, the things I listed are my opinion of a few example that should be taken from VG and developed more, that's all.

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by holydevil

I never understood why Everquest was thought as so ground-breaking. I realize it was the first mmorpg that was 3-d but plenty of mmogs came out before it no? Meridian 59? Maybe I have simply forgot, I just don't know why everyone was on his nuts.

Btw meridian 59 > VG.

M59 was awesome. It was really the game that started it all I think. Not too many people that have played it though. So many fun pvp fights in that game. First raid mob? lol


I guess I solod him too though, it was getting there though =)

[kohl]

Originally Posted by rangoth

We all keep backseat talking about what would make a good MMORPG, the things I listed are my opinion of a few example that should be taken from VG and developed more, that's all.

Yeah, and I do respect what you said in your list. It's a pity you didn't experience UO; there was a definite hardcore PvP element to it - but it was only a small part of the game.
I remember you could tell when a band of PKs had been through, because not only could you kill people in UO, but you could then double click your weapon, and click on the corpse and you would dismember the body into torso, head, arms, legs, etc. You could then dismember limbs into brains, skull, heart, liver, bicep, etc. So your walking along and you see all these body parts and your pulse would pick up just a bit. It was grisly for as much as you could do with SVGA graphics! I remember going into this PKs house and he had a box full of player organs.

Gore aside, there were some fresh ideas that haven't been done well since. But the problem we have NOW is that technology pendulum is in full swing. It's almost like the industry has created a monster that it can't control. There is so much drive for video card product cycles of less than a year, and new processors; lots of new technology, and the only way to sustain that kind of growth is to basically brainwash the population at large into feeling like they NEED to be on that bandwagon.
Sadly, solid game-play (I feel) is being lost in this whole mess. Developers obviously feel pressure from marketers to have long bullet-points of crap to hype up, but how much of that stuff is required for a fun game? When does it go too far and become a hindrance and detriment? Not because tech in and of itself is bad, but because there isn't the time to find out "how do we turn this neat tech into stuff that is fun to play".

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by kohl

Yeah, and I do respect what you said in your list. It's a pity you didn't experience UO; there was a definite hardcore PvP element to it - but it was only a small part of the game.
I remember you could tell when a band of PKs had been through, because not only could you kill people in UO, but you could then double click your weapon, and click on the corpse and you would dismember the body into torso, head, arms, legs, etc. You could then dismember limbs into brains, skull, heart, liver, bicep, etc. So your walking along and you see all these body parts and your pulse would pick up just a bit. It was grisly for as much as you could do with SVGA graphics! I remember going into this PKs house and he had a box full of player organs.

Gore aside, there were some fresh ideas that haven't been done well since. But the problem we have NOW is that technology pendulum is in full swing. It's almost like the industry has created a monster that it can't control. There is so much drive for video card product cycles of less than a year, and new processors; lots of new technology, and the only way to sustain that kind of growth is to basically brainwash the population at large into feeling like they NEED to be on that bandwagon.
Sadly, solid game-play (I feel) is being lost in this whole mess. Developers obviously feel pressure from marketers to have long bullet-points of crap to hype up, but how much of that stuff is required for a fun game? When does it go too far and become a hindrance and detriment? Not because tech in and of itself is bad, but because there isn't the time to find out "how do we turn this neat tech into stuff that is fun to play".

I abosolutely agree with that. And it doesn't just hurt the MMO worlds either, it's even hurting consoles, though on a side note big up to Wii for making kick-ass party games/system.

There is a huge emphasis on graphics now, and while yes they often look cool, I also believe it's hurting the games industry bad

About UO, that does sound cool but I never got into PvP I think it's because I suck ass at it. Even games like Unreal Tournament way back in the day used to piss me off. I don't think I'll ever be able to logically explain it, but some kid walking down the street and spitting on me pisses me off less than some 12 year old kid 3000 miles away in a video game owning me for 20 minutes and then talking shit about it I bet I'd feel the other way about it though if I were the one kicking ass and greifing! I remember a few, but very few, WoW PvP fights I enjoyed. Most were fairly even/close matches even when I lost. But most of my WoW PvP experience comes from either being killed while leveling by a 60 whatever and then spit on and camped for 20 minutes forcing me to go AFK and make food till they got bored and left, or going into AV as a warrior with no guild/group affiliation and just dying over and over again while watching all the healers around me frost shock or mind flay. Not that I expect them to be my personal heal bitch. I never whined in raid chat, or bitched and complained in group that I needed heals. I just made due without, but let's face it, it sucks. There was one day where I was real proud though. I got the most honorable kills AND the most direct kills one day in AV as a warrior. Think I had something like 150+ kills, though I would kindly ask you ignore the adjacent column indicating I had 111 deaths or something damn close.

/rant off

[Clug]

WTB UO using the pre rep system but with EQ2's graphics (I'de say VG's graphics but they run like shit ).

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Clug

WTB UO using the pre rep system but with EQ2's graphics (I'de say VG's graphics but they run like shit ).

Actually they are revamping UO's graphics with a completely new engine:
Ultima Online™: Kingdom Reborn

I'm thinking of checking out the 14day trial just for kicks. I hear the game is nothing like it was 'back in the day' (pre-T2A).

[Draegan]

Thats the best they could do with a 2D engine?

[Wolfen]

Too bad UO2 got canned. It was definitely going to be....different. I think I still have a gameplay video of it stored away somewhere. One of the best PR video's I've ever seen from an MMO company.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Draegan

Thats the best they could do with a 2D engine?

It's hard to tell without seeing it in action, but yeah I agree - it would have been cool if they would have done some kind of true 3D engine. With all the current games out, I think there could be a place for a top down, isometric view game - just spruced up a bit.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Hachima

M59 was awesome. It was really the game that started it all I think. Not too many people that have played it though. So many fun pvp fights in that game. First raid mob? lol


I guess I solod him too though, it was getting there though =)

can't really call the Ghost of Far Nohl a raid mob since there was no grouping in the game.

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

can't really call the Ghost of Far Nohl a raid mob since there was no grouping in the game.

Yeah, that's why I said I solod him. I guess the Luppog king was the first mob that really needed a group hehe

Rook says, "There is but one way to attack the Lupogg King, and that is with numbers. Send in different leads to engage him, and pull those warriors back when they become wounded."