Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Shinrai]

Isn't this sort of expected? When the game moves from beta to commercial the developers get firmly muzzled and they hire a professional spin doctor to make carefully guarded press releases explaining why all is well?

Followed by the next phase where the dev team is pruned to the levels that the subsciption base allows. Which, given vanguard's high cost and low (and probably falling) subscription levels, means that there'll be some empty chairs in the near future.

[Digo]

I find Nino's posts very informative and make me inclined to hold a favorable view of the company. Squelching him would be a mistake.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Jovec

Well, Brad has definitely hyped and promoted his game, but I think he's also been (once pressed enough) about as honest as he can be when talking about the negatives surrounding Sigil and VG. He isn't going to come flat out and admit all the mistakes, repeatedly, like some posters seem to want him to, but between what he has explicitly said, and what we can intelligently infer from reading between the lines, he has been fairly honest. To expect more is tantamount to wanting to strip him of every bit of pride and dignity. He doesn't owe us that.

While I agree with nearly every ounce of your post, I think the past 2 days have proven that not being fully forthcoming right from the beginning, can very well come back to bite you in the ass. Even as long as 7 years later. Who knows what'll be learned about the back door dealings of Vanguard 7 years from now?

If you don't want something known, you keep it to yourself. If it gets found out anyhow, air it out, or it could very well come back in a way you won't want. Never betray the trust of those who pay your bills.

[xeg_IS]

Or simply get rid of those who continually destroy half the threads they post in. When I'm in the mood for civil, constructive discussion in regards to MMO's today, I like to think that this very forum is where I should be. If I'm in the mood for idiocy, Screenshots is where I go. The vocal minority in this forum has been bluring the line between MMO General and Screenshots for quite a while.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Shinrai

Isn't this sort of expected? When the game moves from beta to commercial the developers get firmly muzzled and they hire a professional spin doctor to make carefully guarded press releases explaining why all is well?

Yes, but I've noticed that people only tend to put up with PR people when they're pretty satisfied with the game...when it's something like VG or DDO that they have a lot of issues with, it seems to be like waving a red flag at a bull. I'm not actually sure it's in working their favor to do that. Depends on the audience, I think.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Blumpster

You're all a bunch of jerk monkeys. I still don't know why you people are so vengeful against Brad in particular. So he lied, big fucking deal, everyone fucking lies. OH NOES WHERE ARE MY HERO CLASSES WHICH WERE PROMISED SINCE BEFORE THE GAME WAS EVEN IN BETA TESTING!? I think it's rather obvious that a lot of people at Sigil are disappointed with the launch and you can probably count on Brad being chief among them.

This kind of shit trolling is what I'd expect to see on mmorpg.com. Seriously, take a moment and regroup.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by kohl

This kind of shit trolling is what I'd expect to see on mmorpg.com. Seriously, take a moment and regroup.

ITs expected here now. Everyone you talk to and you mention this website, they will say thats what this forum is. Its becuase thats what it has become. Even Nino said that in so much words. There can never be a civil discussion about anything here anymoe.

bah, last one, now i am done lol

[Hatorade]

I think the bottom line is you either play by the rules of your employer or you don't work for them anymore. Seeing as how none of you are paying his bills I can see why he would stop because he was told to.

Don't get me wrong I loved ninos input and it will be missed.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

There can never be a civil discussion about anything here anymoe.

I think that is patently false. There are plenty of threads that remain civil, nearly all of them. In fact, there are several VG threads on the first page that are pretty civil except for a couple of outbursts (the patch notes one with Schatze acting like a 'tard for example).

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Jovec

Brad has been heavily involved in EQ (which even with its numerous flaws it can definitely be considered a success) and has put together his own company and has an actual product on store shelves. I'm fully aware that many of us on this board are very capable and accomplished in our chosen fields, but that's a lot harder than many rank-and-file wage earners that post here seem to think.

I think many people here could argue with you on this point. Do you go to work every day and put in an honest days work? Do you end up going above and beyond? Do you take pride in what you do?

The guy (Brad) got an unprecedented pile of money and 5 years of time to do his job and despite all of that, he BARELY got his product on store shelves.

Without going into a rant about how good or bad or (un)talented Brad is, he really fucked this whole thing up... collosally.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Miele

I don't know if a lot of you live in Happyland or where else, but in my day to day life I see plenty, if not ALL companies spinning, lieing, marketing and trying to make spend my hard earned money into some shit product I could live without.

When you come to where people gather and hope for the new MMO, hawk your promises that you'll deliver it, sucker people into 'investing in VG' by buying it, then hawk more promises to keep people subscribed to keep building something that should have been there in the first place...

You don't come off as an honest company.

You come off as a telemarketer selling you stock in some bogus company that promises you riches, suckers you into investing in it, and then as it goes down... promises that 'things will pick up' and you should invest more. But the reality is, that stock (and your life savings), plummet to zero.

Just like those heartless faggots in the movie "Boiler Room."

Sure the stakes are nowhere near the same, but the sleaziness is just about equal.

[Requiem]

Here's an idea - what about a forum here on fohguild.org where developers, presidents, any sort of representative of these gaming companies can come to have valid discussion about a particular topic.

The forum would allow only these people to start threads, and they would be moderators with the full ability to delete and edit posts. I know it sounds oppressive, but I think it could work as long as nobody was allowed to abuse it, and I am willing to be the people's champion on that front.

We have something here on these forums that could potentially be a powerful tool for the progression of the genre. I'm only brainstorming for a way for these people to get what they are obviously seeking by posting here without the risk of a single person or a few multiple people taking away the possibility of any good coming from a thread. It's astounding how much disruption can be caused with so little effort. I'm open to ideas on the subject.

[Mist]

If you build it, they will come.

Actually, more likely, if you build it, their managers will tell them they can't come. :/

[Cuppycake]

Hey Req, that's actually a really good idea. I support that idea 100%!

[Laerazi]

Awesome idea, Req.