Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Antarius]

That picture is great

Also, I'm glad Elitist Jerks has a forum for meaningful WoW discussion. Still, this forum still has a place in the world.

[Tancred]

OK I've lurked occasionally since I lost patience with this shithole but this thread has finally forced me to log in and sound off again. Old man potter said:

"I'd like to ask the devs that still post here: Given the hardcore nature of the demographic that posts here, just what are you trying to achieve by doing this? Do you spend equal time with other segments of your playerbase such as casual gamers, tradeskillers, PVPers and role-players?"

Nobody ever "looked up to" a casual player, RPer or tradeskiller. Those hardcore mothers at the top of the curve with their fat loots and leet skillz - they are the ones the rest of the players aspire to be. That is why Brad came here to try and sell Vanguard: If the hardcore adopted his game the rest would follow. It didn't work out but hey.

To the rest of you, you can't have your cake and eat it. Devs posting here will occasionally do it out of the goodness of their hearts otherwise it'll be to serve an agenda be it Smed's fire-fighting, Kendrick's record-straightening or Brad's sales pitches. It became very popular to slam Brad for his "fluff" but ffs THAT'S HIS JOB. You do not have to take everything you read as gospel truth. Similarly you cannot demand that someone like Brad "admit it" or otherwise concede that the shrill complaints against his product are true. He can't and won't do it. There may come a time when he is prepared and able to examine and discuss the ugly side of Vanguard but it's a long way off yet.If you can't understand this please grow up and get a real job before posting in response to a professional developer again.

Now I'm not going to sit here and defend Vanguard as its failings are clear and well documented. I suspect the dev team realized a good year ago they were in trouble and have been dealing with a sense of sick dread ever since but that's just my opinion. The "haters" (gay fucking word) were proven right, not that their observations were rocket surgery. The main problem with discussion of the game here was the one or two lunatics with a personal axe to grind. To make Brad "pay" for the sins of the EQ Live team of 8 fucking years ago or whatever. To those people I offer a motto to live by: "Never suspect conspiracy where incompetence is an adequate explanation". I don't believe Brad intentionally lied to the players of EQ over Alchemy. I believe the team massively fucked up by accident.
Seriously, you know who you are. Seek help or stop posting as whatever good points you are making are getting lost in the noise your bullshit generates. Your insights were not unique so nobody will suffer if you leave it to others to point it out. And the people who wanted to try out VG before judging it were never going to be persuaded to change their mind by your raging jihads, so give it a fucking rest from time to time.

OMP ended with:
"Are these forums worth saving?"
I hope so because there was a time when this was the best place for general MMO discussion on a reasonably serious, if profanity-heavy, level. As of now there are too many shit-flinging chimps here ("shower of cretinous cunts" I believe was the term I used in my last meltdown) to make it worth anyone's while.
The one thing this board could learn from the EJ forums is their hard-line use of the ban-stick for worthless posters. Ban them hard and ban them often. Then ban anyone who cries about the bannings. This place will be back in shape in no time.

[Jaytee Bushwacker]

I enjoyed playing EQ with Nino and I would put faith into his statements about MMORPGS over most people. That would extend to all of the folks I played with in FoH.

I will not be buying Vanguard, not because of bugs, unfinished quests, or any of the other issues brought up. I just do not share many of the viewpoints that its leading Developer has about MMORPGs. No disrespect to Brad I simply do not enjoy a lot of the ideas he brings to the table.

Trivial loot code, in my opinion a horrible idea that Brad tried to bring to us in EQ but thank goodness it failed there. "Class balance" that never really worked out for a long period of time. Again, in my opinion, Class Balance never really came onto a more even keel until Brad had left EQ.

Brad is, in my opinion, to rigid in his ideas and tries to force a certain playstyle onto the playerbase. This is not to say Brad is all bad or anything else. WoW has some of the same issues to an extent. Meeting stones have to be the worst way I have seen to implement a LFG system. I got one group out of that system in the five months I played WoW and it broke up before we even got to the zone we were going to.

Brad brought us a lot of great things in EQ and I do not harbour any ill will towards him or the Vanguard dev team. I wish them success because the more successful all MMORPGs are the better they can become as a whole giving us more choices overall which is always a good thing. However, I will not knowingly subject myself to another game where Brad is the dungeon master.

[Arctic Circle]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

The problem I have is where were these Captain Americas when AC2 came out?

Asheron's Call 2. There were many "Captain America" type of crusaders in those days on various boards, including AC2 alpha/beta boards. But just like now with Vanguard, fanbois shouted louder and developers ignored all criticism untill it was way too late. Just like now With Vanguard, developers tried bandaid to fix severed limbs. Minor changes didn't turn AC2 for the better and it was cancelled after relatively short run. Actually premature end of AC2 is one of the few positive moments in MMoG biz history, since these games are notoriously hard to kill.

I have some old threads saved from AC2 and it's fun to see that Vanguard was already then hot topic.

Originally Posted by over 4 years ago

You know Microsoft was already signed up Sigil Games to make a MMORPG. I expect if AC / AC2 do not have good numbers by the time Brad has something for MS to sell, bye-bye AC / AC2.

Originally Posted by over 4 years ago

Sigil Games and Microsoft....

.... Brad McQuaid and Bill Gates ....

*Blink*

*Blink*

.... The AMALGAMATION of EVIL!!! ....

I will NEVER buy ANYTHING with a Brad McQuaid's "Vision (TM)" in the product.

People like Ut have their purpose. They balance the usually way more massive group of fanbois. In all my years on various MMoG alphas and betas (or games in general), I've seen fanbois hurt games almost as much as inept developers or publishers. So called "haters" can have opposite effect, in some games they actually manage to get their point thru and force developers to make changes. If not that, maybe they help people to save few dollars and convince that game is no good.

I don't much care about developers posts in these type of boards. If they are employed by some company, they can't speak freely. Only in those brief moments when they are inbetween the jobs, they can actually take part of discussion in meaningful way, without spin or some hidden agenda. Of course if you meet 'em in person, they can chat more casually but usually then they can trust that none posts their views on some messageboard. And even if someone do post, most of the community have very little reason to belive the message (untill they see something happen later that proves the message right).

After Asheron's Call 2 was cancelled, you saw these type of messages in many threads - You are free to like whatever type of game but for the sake of community or MMoG industry, hopefully you never play the game you like again. As we see years later, there's yet another game that some people like and play daily. Unfortunately for them, that game cost over 30 million to develop and so far there's no way nearly enough players to support it. In the end, it might have been better just to design niche game, follow "the vision" and have much lower budget.

[Bongk]

how many times can I say the same thing before it sinks into your heads...

Originally Posted by Nattac

We would of never had that information if it wasn't for UT, We would of NEVER gotten Nino's response Back to UT,

For the 20th time he didnt send that info to Ut

If it wasn't for that post. We would of never gotten any information on the current state of game.

Yes i guess it is to hard to ask Nino yourself when that was an option, it is much better to have Utnayans rambllings than honest dev information and inishgts that ANYONE could have gotten previsouly that now we cannot.

I feel bad for Nino ya it sucks. But Brads a hoe bag who couldn't take the heat anymore and said not to go back.. giving us LESS information until the game gets more fixed

That was said by brad before this leaked message by Ut and is not related, please try top at least get the story straight befoire you go off on your incoherant ramblings. Now it is most likely a done deal and Nino will not be able to speak to us about ingame issues.

[holydevil]

What did nino message to Utan? I tried searching but I couldn't find it. What thread? What page?

[Zehn - Vhex]

They exchanged phone numbers and Millie got his hands on a saucy phone sex conversation and posted a transcript. I'll try to dig up the link to it. Apparently Nino has a thing for oranges and Utnayan was more then willing to oblige.

[redjunkopera]

These threads are usually like 1 UT post followed by 800 UT anti-fanclub posts. It's annoying as fuck.

Post by UT, Neric, etc are usually the couple of desenting posts amid a sea of post by people ready to bend over and swallow whatever Dev_X is about to push out 1/4 finished, balls deep.

It's funny because I hadn't even heard of FoH until the whole fiasco with GoD... and now here we are years later with massive mobs of posters getting their panties in a twist because some guy who sold them a fraction of a game at full price doesn't want to talk to them anymore because a few posters called them out on it.

Vanguard's problem is NOT a failure to manage expectations, it's a failure to manage resources.

Brad can stay away. The MMO-Devs of today can push out their WoW clones and completely ignore these boards. The "Brad McQuaid"s of the next generation... the ones who are going to get hundred of thousands following their game just because their name is on the project... are the ones who are gonna be able to swim with the sharks the Brad McQuaid of the last generation created.

[Man0warr]

Don't compare AC2 to Vanguard. AC2 was just terrible and had no potential at all to be a good game - even with all the bugs Vanguard has the potential to be one of the best MMORPGs out there.

Everything Turbine touches turns to ash, atleast Brad has a sort of positive track record.

[Samflam]

Originally Posted by redjunkopera

amid a sea of post by people ready to bend over and swallow whatever Dev_X is about to push out 1/4 finished, balls deep.

Do yourself a favor and think about what you type next time. This is simply not true whatsoever; sure there may be some blind fanboys but the solid majority of posters know the score and are capable of intelligent discussion.
The thing that seperates your beloved "dissidents" from the status quo is their volume. That's it.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Arctic Circle

Asheron's Call 2. There were many "Captain America" type of crusaders in those days on various boards...

Of course there were. But I was strictly taking about the 3-4 mouthbreathers here, like UT, where were THEY.

Its painfully obvious that these people have another agenda other than being Captain America for the masses of mmorpg players in the world.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Of course there were. But I was strictly taking about the 3-4 mouthbreathers here, like UT, where were THEY.

Its painfully obvious that these people have another agenda other than being Captain America for the masses of mmorpg players in the world.

You are a fucking moron. Do you even know when AC2 was released? November of 2002. I know you think you have a big point to make by saying people only care about Brad or SOE or Sigil, but you aren't making it very well. No one gave a fuck about AC2 because no one expected anything from it. It also released at a time that this board was in full-swing Furor mode with EQ.

Hell, for all you know there could have been a dozen threads on the game, but since the earliest post viewable on this site is from January of 2003, you can't even prove your own damn point.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Man0warr

Don't compare AC2 to Vanguard. AC2 was just terrible and had no potential at all to be a good game - even with all the bugs Vanguard has the potential to be one of the best MMORPGs out there.

Everything Turbine touches turns to ash, atleast Brad has a sort of positive track record.

Where is this magical potential everyone keeps talking about? I mean honestly - tell me what VG brings to the table that makes it this revolutionary game that offers what no other game can offer.

Is it the size of the game world? You can't seriously believe that is still a major plus.
Is it the crafting? That doesn't really score huge points.
Is it the Lore? rofl
Is it the graphics? Again, rofl.
Is it because it runs well on most computers? see above...

Brad's track record is that he developed a 3D MMO at a time when there were none. EQ was in the enviable situation of being new and having basically no competition. It couldn't have failed unless they actually unplugged the servers.

[Nattac]

Originally Posted by Bongk

how many times can I say the same thing before it sinks into your heads...



That was said by brad before this leaked message by Ut and is not related, please try top at least get the story straight befoire you go off on your incoherant ramblings. Now it is most likely a done deal and Nino will not be able to speak to us about ingame issues "when hes told to stay away?.

I never said anything about Nino directly sending Ut the message.

Ive read almost all of Brads post atleast on this forum.. and definitly don't remember any post looking like that. So if i somehow missed one sorry ><

[Ravensign]

I think the recent craziness is VG specific.

Some people thought it would take them back to that feeling they had in early EQ and when they found out it that not only wouldn't it, but also that things might have been mis-represented to them, they just lost it, and here we are.