Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[Kendrick]

In regards to the Vanguard FAQ...

I can tell you guys this, future MMO's are going to be a LOT more gun-shy about going "open kimino" (a buzzword overused internally at SGO) when it comes to game features and ideas, based on the end-results of Vanguard.

Managing expectations is a hell of lot easier that way.

Problem is, people making these games get just as excited about what they HOPE to build as the players get about what they HOPE to play, and many want to talk about it if allowed. It's not all shilling for the crowd either.

That "dreaming stage" is perhaps the most fun you have during a MMORPG production cycle, before the cold, harsh light of implementation shines in, so it's not surprising people who get paid to entertain others want to share some of that fun.

But both sides need to be clear about what's hoped for, and what is ACTUALLY coming. If you can't manage that tricky balance, the best (and most often used) solution is to just keep quiet until very close to ship time.

You shouldn't totally string them along with silence either, letting them build an incorrect mental picture on their own is just as bad as giving them incorrect (deliberate or not) information.

[Ender4212]

Originally Posted by Algol Devilstar

Hey, Im not going to play vanguard and have no intention of it, but Ut and THK rant on Vanguard is already dun gone past fanaticism. They are the terrorists of FOH's board.

Why read Vanguard threads then? If you have zero interest in playing the game, why come here?

I read threads concerning Vanguard because I currently have an account and in the past had a beta account. If I had no interest in the game, I wouldn't bother. Kind of like how I don't bother even peaking at 80% of the threads on these forums. If somebody in those threads is causing trouble, I certainly don't care.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Nólaquen

At least it is consolidated.

Tell me. Is it better to have no rules or to have a rule that is only enforced most of the time?

Actually, its better not to cattle corral those who give valid reasons for leaving, if theres no intent on upholding the integrity of the reasoning for putting them there in the first place. These were genuine fans of the game that experienced issues that ruined it for them, and were provided a place to voice themselves. They don't need a bunch of asshats ragging on them going unchecked to compound that.

[Nólaquen]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

In regards to the Vanguard FAQ...

I can tell you guys this, future MMO's are going to be a LOT more gun-shy about going "open kimino" (a buzzword overused internally at SGO) when it comes to game features and ideas, based on the end-results of Vanguard.

Managing expectations is a hell of lot easier that way.

Between open kimono and deafening silence, I would probably have to choose the latter. That was not my opinion before Vanguard, either. I really thought the detail was a good thing at the time. But the high level goals even without the details, and series of "maybe"s somehow ruined my perception because most of the folks that have followed this game for such a long time will say that the launch game was very dissimilar to what they had expected.

I look back at how games used to be made. They would just suddenly appear in the store one day and if you recognized the brand or the name, you'd pick it up and try it out. Sometimes you'd even know the name of the game before it came out. And you know what? As a player, I prefer those days.

I guess its not quite so easy for an MMO.

[Nólaquen]

Originally Posted by Rayne

Actually, its better not to cattle corral those who give valid reasons for leaving, if theres no intent on upholding the integrity of the reasoning for putting them there in the first place. These were genuine fans of the game that experienced issues that ruined it for them, and were provided a place to voice themselves. They don't need a bunch of asshats ragging on them going unchecked to compound that.

Understood and agreed, but that is not answering the question. Is it better to have a complete free-for-all, or some tight rules that get applied most of the time, but not all of the time? It's a rhetorical question for me, but it may not be for you. If you agree that it's better to at least have the rules, then I will tell you we're doing our best with what we have and thank you for your patience and understanding.

[Cedil]

Requiem, you need to start banning people.

I'm going to stop coming here soon.

[Marthisdil]

Originally Posted by kohl

The guy (Brad) got an unprecedented pile of money and 5 years of time to do his job and despite all of that, he BARELY got his product on store shelves.

I'm sure MS pulling out after a good deal of time helped things a lot too.

I'll say this - at least VG is better than SWG was at release. Hell, it's better than SWG has ever been.

All game manufacturers have lied about a lot of things - no one can say they don't with an honest face.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Start with Cedil, or I leave.

8)

[Blumpster]

Originally Posted by Cedil

I'm going to stop coming here soon.

Haha.

[Roa]

Originally Posted by Marthisdil

All manufacturers have lied about a lot of things - no one can say they don't with an honest face.

Still waiting for a "My Big Mac doesn't look like the commercials Big Mac" thread in general.

[Ender4212]

Originally Posted by Marthisdil

I'll say this - at least VG is better than SWG was at release. Hell, it's better than SWG has ever been.

Different strokes for different folks. I'll have to disagree on that point. I probably have blinders on for SWG though. I was in love with that game until the NGE.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Nólaquen

Understood and agreed, but that is not answering the question. Is it better to have a complete free-for-all, or some tight rules that get applied most of the time, but not all of the time?

Well, if the rule is only selectively applied, what is the purpose of having it? Clearly, the free-for-all is the better answer, because the alternative shows a clear bias toward one side or the other when used in a selective manner.

[Nattac]

Originally Posted by Ender4212

Different strokes for different folks. I'll have to disagree on that point. I probably have blinders on for SWG though. I was in love with that game until the NGE.

I definitly agree also.. I was in love with that game >< I almost cry everytime i think about SWG

[Nólaquen]

Originally Posted by Marthisdil

All game manufacturers have lied about a lot of things - no one can say they don't with an honest face.

Personally, I think (note: this is an outsider perspective, so take with a grain of salt) that what we're really seeing is that some companies have discovered and implemented best practices and other companies less so. Perhaps the latter are still learning, and perhaps they are a lost cause. I think a company like Blizzard may have more best practices in place than others out there. But as far as Sigil goes, they are definitely not a lost cause, but I do think they are learning. Brad has said as much. Vanguard would not be as good as it is (yes, Vanguard does have it's shining moments that, IMO, are well above the competition in certain areas) otherwise.

[Greyform]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Here is what is fucking hilarious.

Nino didn't send me jack fucking shit.

And when I posted a snippet on it because I was taking slack from the Ut-Haters for never documenting any of my facts, I didn't say who it was from, and I even went OUT OF MY WAY to say it was from someone who doesn't even have access to the forums.

So read what the fuck you are even flaming me for first.

.

I am flaming you for posting this:

- Utnayan
Edit: And holymight, don't start with me or I will post the PM you got from Nino.

and then posting this:

– Utnayan

Here is a small snippet from a page long fucking post that I promised not to post

You made a promise backed your ass up into a corner and then went back on your word.

The sad thing is instead of apologizing for your actions, which are absolutely indefensible here you are, talking even more shit.

You did not go that far out of your way pal most of us knew before Nino posted who wrote that "snippet".