Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

McQuaid is making decisions about what to say based upon the good of not only this game, but for Sigil in its entirety. He's got a lot more riding on each post of his than Nino does. Its obvious that he may not be handling his communication with the playerbase in the most personal way possible....but I imagine its hard to formulate responses to a critical mass that don't incriminate him or the company.

And I'm not asking him to come here and answer every individual question that we have, but when he shows up and often ends up spinning, deflecting questions or answering in vague terms that don't actually amount to anything, all while still hyping his game as the best thing since sliced bread, I'm of the opinion that that's far worse for his own reputation and that of Sigil than if he'd said nothing at all.

[Blumpster]

You're all a bunch of jerk monkeys. I still don't know why you people are so vengeful against Brad in particular. So he lied, big fucking deal, everyone fucking lies. OH NOES WHERE ARE MY HERO CLASSES WHICH WERE PROMISED SINCE BEFORE THE GAME WAS EVEN IN BETA TESTING!? I think it's rather obvious that a lot of people at Sigil are disappointed with the launch and you can probably count on Brad being chief among them.

It seems like you people are posting all these negative things to try and "get through" to Brad and company in an attempt to make them realize their mistakes and miraculously correct them. Well guys these people are some of the best in the business and you don't know dick fuck #1 about how the shit to do anything pertaining to these games better than they do. The closest Ut has come to game design is inventing new ways to masturbate.

They know the launch sucked. They were more disappointed with launching early than you were. While you're complaining about the game being a piece of shit they're pulling 16 hour days, just the same as they were BEFORE launch, and trying to improve the game so you'll STFU. Cut the shit and either play the game or wait until it's up to your standards, or wait, here's an idea, FIND ANOTHER GAME TO PLAY. No shit about "I want to play Vanguard" because if you did you would be playing it and you wouldn't be here tearing down the house that built it. Constructive criticism is one thing, spewing sewage out of your ass through a carefully aimed straw is something entirely different, and all together disgusting.

[xmod2]

Oh Blumpster, you're so crazy.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Blumpster

You're all a bunch of jerk monkeys. I still don't know why you people are so vengeful against Brad in particular. So he lied, big fucking deal, everyone fucking lies. OH NOES WHERE ARE MY HERO CLASSES WHICH WERE PROMISED SINCE BEFORE THE GAME WAS EVEN IN BETA TESTING!? I think it's rather obvious that a lot of people at Sigil are disappointed with the launch and you can probably count on Brad being chief among them.

It seems like you people are posting all these negative things to try and "get through" to Brad and company in an attempt to make them realize their mistakes and miraculously correct them. Well guys these people are some of the best in the business and you don't know dick fuck #1 about how the shit to do anything pertaining to these games better than they do. The closest Ut has come to game design is inventing new ways to masturbate.

They know the launch sucked. They were more disappointed with launching early than you were. While you're complaining about the game being a piece of shit they're pulling 16 hour days, just the same as they were BEFORE launch, and trying to improve the game so you'll STFU. Cut the shit and either play the game or wait until it's up to your standards, or wait, here's an idea, FIND ANOTHER GAME TO PLAY. No shit about "I want to play Vanguard" because if you did you would be playing it and you wouldn't be here tearing down the house that built it. Constructive criticism is one thing, spewing sewage out of your ass through a carefully aimed straw is something entirely different, and all together disgusting.

Are you implying that everything said about Vanguard on this forum has been crap? No constructive comments at all? Because I can find dozens. Feel free to bash Utnayan and the other people out for Brad's head, but don't tar us all with the same brush.

[Miele]

I don't know if a lot of you live in Happyland or where else, but in my day to day life I see plenty, if not ALL companies spinning, lieing, marketing and trying to make spend my hard earned money into some shit product I could live without.

The difference from RL to here is that on these boards, some people made a crusade about Vanguard that is really exagerated and has absolutely no reason to exist.
Vanguard is what it is, it will get better probably and I wish Sigil and the game some more luck.
While I agree on a line of principle that games should come out perfectly polished and devs/producers shouldn't lie to customers, I also understand those that are working behind the game and see a bunch of things that don't go as planned and need to keep selling the product, because you know, employees must be paid, taxes too, hardware etc is costly as well.

Sometimes in all fields of the human economy, companies got to make up some shit to cover the flaws, but what Sigil or SoE or other companies did with games is nothing compared to more big and important companies in the world do on a fucking daily basis, literally stealing billions from unaware customers.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Miele

Sometimes in all fields of the human economy, companies got to make up some shit to cover the flaws, but what Sigil or SoE or other companies did with games is nothing compared to more big and important companies in the world do on a fucking daily basis, literally stealing billions from unaware customers.

Quite right. Just take a look at oil companies, for example. But they don't come onto this board trying to advertise. I think that's what got so many people pissed. (except Ut, his beef seems to go back to the original EQ)

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Bolero

If I was Nino, I sure wouldn't post here. The amount of negativity is ridiculous. Much of it seems to come from people who don't even play the game. It is just a game for crying out loud. Could you imagine if you had to put up with so much negativity for a project that you worked on?

Valid discussions and criticisms about gameplay are great, but this has turned into a religious war that defies logic.

Some gamers take thier gaming very seriously. Others, not so much. Theres nothing wrong with being passionate about it. I can't think of any other place on the net that tolerates anything near the amount of free speech that passes around here.

As for Nino:

If the worst happens, McQuaid martyrs him. And i'm fairly certain that won't bode very well for him, or his game. This is one situation he really would be best served to spin into his own favor. Thing is, he wouldn't even need to post a single word.

[kcxiv]

Hell, i wouldnt post on here either if i was a Dev for a video game. Not when you got dumbasses like the ones we all know that post here. I would just move on. I am almost certain that hardly any dev's will post here again. We can all thank or resident fools for that.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Are you implying that everything said about Vanguard on this forum has been crap? No constructive comments at all? Because I can find dozens. Feel free to bash Utnayan and the other people out for Brad's head, but don't tar us all with the same brush.

You like to throw bait out with everyone else man. I seen your posts on SV as well. You dont get out of hand, but you sure like to keep baiting, just not in a crazy sort of way like some people do here.

Anyways, i am done posting about it. Makes no sense before it gets out of hand like every thing usually does.

Sucks that Nino probalby wont ever be posting here again. I guess blizzard was smart after all to put a muzzle on Furor and Tigole from posting on sites like this.

[Jovec]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

And I'm not asking him to come here and answer every individual question that we have, but when he shows up and often ends up spinning, deflecting questions or answering in vague terms that don't actually amount to anything, all while still hyping his game as the best thing since sliced bread, I'm of the opinion that that's far worse for his own reputation and that of Sigil than if he'd said nothing at all.

Well, Brad has definitely hyped and promoted his game, but I think he's also been (once pressed enough) about as honest as he can be when talking about the negatives surrounding Sigil and VG. He isn't going to come flat out and admit all the mistakes, repeatedly, like some posters seem to want him to, but between what he has explicitly said, and what we can intelligently infer from reading between the lines, he has been fairly honest. To expect more is tantamount to wanting to strip him of every bit of pride and dignity. He doesn't owe us that.

Brad has been heavily involved in EQ (which even with its numerous flaws it can definitely be considered a success) and has put together his own company and has an actual product on store shelves. I'm fully aware that many of us on this board are very capable and accomplished in our chosen fields, but that's a lot harder than many rank-and-file wage earners that post here seem to think. Approval or disapproval is easily given with your wallet. This board also provides us with a unique opportunity to voice our opinions and concerns where they can actually be heard. Why then would we not want to make intelligent and reasonable arguments for our position, irregardless of what that position is?

As for Nino (and Hartsman), I thoroughly appreciate his participation on this site, along with all of the other developers. I can easily recognize and dismiss a certain amount of hype and promotion as long as there is some true information being conveyed. Maybe if every thread with a developer post didn't become deluged with pure hate posts and name calling, accusations and requests for admissions of guilt for past mistakes, endless repetition of the obvious (we all know EQ had unfinished content, thanks), and sense of entitlement that my question be answered, we might see more developer interaction, and better developer interaction as they will hopefully be more likely to come here with substance instead of fluff, if it wasn't so needlessly hostile.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

You like to throw bait out with everyone else man. I seen your posts on SV as well. You dont get out of hand, but you sure like to keep baiting, just not in a crazy sort of way like some people do here.

Anyways, i am done posting about it. Makes no sense before it gets out of hand like every thing usually does.

Sucks that Nino probalby wont ever be posting here again. I guess blizzard was smart after all to put a muzzle on Furor and Tigole from posting on sites like this.

I consider my baiting a reasonable response to the "facts" Brad likes to bandy about. As for SV...let's just say Vanbois bashing some guy that comes there with a problem gets me annoyed.

[gremlinz273]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

I consider my baiting a reasonable response to the "facts" Brad likes to bandy about. As for SV...let's just say Vanbois bashing some guy that comes there with a problem gets me annoyed.

You sir, are a base troll. Dont try to convince people otherwise. They can just read your posts in this thread.

You have absolutely nothing of any substance to add, and your only message is to slander someone you know will not likely respond.

In short, gtfo.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I've deleted a number of posts on this thread personally attacking Utnayan.

I know there's a whole lot of you that want to drag him through the mud right now. That will do nothing but make this thread erupt back into what the nerd rage thread was, and I'd say we've beat that dead horse enough.

Please, let's not get back into a trainwreck.

This alone should be enough to quash any doubt people had over the banning accusations. I'm sure it would be far easier to just ban UT again, as well as many others who got out of control in the shawed thread (myself as well, quite possibly), in order to bring some semblence of sanity back. The fact that the thread was simply Shamed, no one was banned afaik and Req is willing to take a chance on us not going 'Nerd Rage" again says a lot IMO.

I really think that almost any discussion over VG is just going to devolve into flaming at this point, which is sad. Thats been happening on forums that are far more relaxed and vanilla than FOH, and I suppose that it shouldn't be any surprise that we would go tooth and nail over it here. The game has been hashed and rehashed so many times, that people are simply all the quicker to just skip over arguments they have heard before and just go straight for the throat.

The Brad hate is pretty ridiculous at this point as well. I'm no fanbois, and I hold Brad responsible for a lot, but I am not going to treat him like an Internet Antichrist. He was wrong, VG had issues that they couldn't hide and they are going to reap the rewards of how things went. Everyone at Sigil will get what they deserve imho, and the slavering anti-Brads don't need to attempt to carve off their own pound of flesh.

Prediction: This thread will end up like all the other VG ones, full of people on each side flaming each other and getting worked up beyond belief.

[Blumpster]

Originally Posted by Jovec

Well, Brad has definitely hyped and promoted his game, but I think he's also been (once pressed enough) about as honest as he can be when talking about the negatives surrounding Sigil and VG. He isn't going to come flat out and admit all the mistakes, repeatedly, like some posters seem to want him to, but between what he has explicitly said, and what we can intelligently infer from reading between the lines, he has been fairly honest. To expect more is tantamount to wanting to strip him of every bit of pride and dignity. He doesn't owe us that.

Brad has been heavily involved in EQ (which even with its numerous flaws it can definitely be considered a success) and has put together his own company and has an actual product on store shelves. I'm fully aware that many of us on this board are very capable and accomplished in our chosen fields, but that's a lot harder than many rank-and-file wage earners that post here seem to think. Approval or disapproval is easily given with your wallet. This board also provides us with a unique opportunity to voice our opinions and concerns where they can actually be heard. Why then would we not want to make intelligent and reasonable arguments for our position, irregardless of what that position is?

As for Nino (and Hartsman), I thoroughly appreciate his participation on this site, along with all of the other developers. I can easily recognize and dismiss a certain amount of hype and promotion as long as there is some true information being conveyed. Maybe if every thread with a developer post didn't become deluged with pure hate posts and name calling, accusations and requests for admissions of guilt for past mistakes, endless repetition of the obvious (we all know EQ had unfinished content, thanks), and sense of entitlement that my question be answered, we might see more developer interaction, and better developer interaction as they will hopefully be more likely to come here with substance instead of fluff, if it wasn't so needlessly hostile.

This is like my post, only intelligible, and stuff.

[Cadrid]

If the issue is, truly, the blind rants and flames by a vocal minority then perhaps it shouldn't be condoned in the MMORPG General Discussion forum. Offer an alternate forum for off-the-cuff, no-holds-barred rant-a-paloozas, and keep the (relatively) civil, critical, and respectable conversation in MMORPG General Discussion.

(NOTE: This is not a demand or a request. It's an idea to remedy the issue if rantings and ravings are the source of the problem)