Nino...One of the upsides of VG.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Yeah, I tried explaining that several times. It's really boggling how he could have sent that to Ut and not expect something to come of it. Was Ut wrong in what he did? Maybe.. knowing how he his and what his messages are, I can understand why he did it.. but he probably shouldn't have. And he *did* try to deflect the origination of the information. No, that doesn't excuse it, but people are acting like he did it with the intent of getting Nino in trouble when he didn't.

When you know that it would result in consequences for Nino, then i think it is intent. Nino just stepped up and took it like a man before Brad himself read it. He would have asked who sent that out. Nino just stepped up to the plate like a man should.

Anyways, like i said, UT knew there would be trouble for Nino if he posted it.

[Nattac]

Originally Posted by Bongk

Way to go bud, guess our days of honest answers are over so you can feel better about yourself.

We would of never had that information if it wasn't for UT, We would of NEVER gotten Nino's response Back to UT, If it wasn't for that post. We would of never gotten any information on the current state of game.

I feel bad for Nino ya it sucks. But Brads a hoe bag who couldn't take the heat anymore and said not to go back.. giving us LESS information until the game gets more fixed

[Neric]

Originally Posted by elrich

And, wtf neric. Why are you going to such ridiculous extremes to defend Ut? Ya, Nino made a mistake by sending the info in the first place (only proven by the fact that it did bite him in the ass) but Ut flat out admitted to breaking a promise to keep the info private. *Indefensible*, even if the info he posted wasn't taken out of context and out of date.

You provide me with the chance to quote myself...

If he doesn't prove his statements you call him a liar, if he does you call him traitor.

That's what I noticed in the other threads, that's what I noticed here and that's basically all I can say about the case.

[Punko]

Had Vanguard been 100% pure gold, it still wouldn't have managed to meet the expectations that were raised.

Overpromising & underdelivering, a great combination to piss of customers.

Nino, be smart, and secure your position ($). I'm sure you realise selling out > trying to maintain any form of integrity in this sector.

[r.gun]

Originally Posted by Neric

If he doesn't prove his statements you call him a liar, if he does you call him traitor.

It's not about him trying to prove himself, it's about him using outdated and private information to try and prove a point, failing miserably and getting a good dev in trouble.

[Lenaldo]

Seriously. These boards used to be a staple of mmo discussion, but now it is basically a cesspool of venomous assholes trying to get a jab in at developers because they feel slated for some undeterminable reason.

Lets face it. Ut has rarely, if ever posted anything constructive on these forums with regards to VG. Nino is right when he said the difference beteween furor and the wannabes is the fact that furor WANTED the game to get better and he posted rants/critiques with this in mind. Ut/neric/etc are all in it for one thing; nerd-fame. They just want to be the big-bad-douchebag who "took down the beast". Lets face it, had you removed UT months ago, this place would be better. More so, not one person would have truely missed him. Hes a virus that is destroying the integrity of the boards with every post he makes.

Constructive posts with thoughtout replies are being replaced with "IBTR" and "OMG FUCKING BRAD FUCK FUCK FUCK". The EJ forums are a shining example of what this board used to be like and it is depressing to see how far it has fallen.

I still believe that this board holds the most diverse and well-mmo-educated players but they are being silenced by a few selfish, immature assholes who get their only fueling of self-esteam by being a forum-warrior on the foh boards.

Moderation is definitely needed to save these forums. Its not about styming the voice of the players, but instead stoping abusive posters from intimidating intelligent discussion. There is absolutely no reason to post constructively on a thread when you know the next post is going to be from someone like ut using profanity and insults to try and break down your post. I read most of the vg threads before release. I was in beta. I knew firsthand what the game was like. Guess what, everything UT said was more biased than anything brad could ever have posted. Was stuff bugged? Hell ya it was. However, was the game the second coming of the anti-christ like Ut would like everyone to think? Fuck no. To me, it was an average beta with slightly more bugs mainly coming from the fact that the graphics were FAR supperior to ANY other mmorpg.

I will end this by saying that, NO, i do not play vanguard. I am currently playing WoW not because I feel it is a better game but because that is where my friends are at. In the end, all of these games play identical but it is the community that you play with that dictates your experience.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Lenaldo

Seriously. These boards used to be a staple of mmo discussion, but now it is basically a cesspool of venomous assholes trying to get a jab in at developers because they feel slated for some undeterminable reason.

Lets face it. Ut has rarely, if never posted anything constructive on these forums with regards to VG. Nino is right when he said the difference beteween furor and the wannabes is the fact that furor WANTED the game to get better and he posted rants/critiques with this in mind. Ut/neric/etc are all in it for one thing; nerd-fame. They just want to be the big-bad-douchebag who "took down the beast". Lets face it, had you removed UT months ago from this place would be better. Hes a virus that is destroying the integrity of the boards with every post he makes.

Constructive posts with thoughtout replies are being replaced with "IBTR" and "OMG FUCKING BRAD FUCK FUCK FUCK". The EJ forums are a shining example of what this board used to be like and it is depressing to see how far it has fallen.

I still believe that this board holds the most diverse and well-mmo-educated players but they are being silenced by a few selfish, immature assholes who get their only fueling of self-esteam by being a forum-warrior on the foh boards.

Don't go overboard here: the Vanguard threads can be a cesspool, but there are plenty of other decent discussions going on right now. Brad just seems to be the red flag for rude people (which given his posting style is somewhat understandable). Other than your over-generalization, you're pretty much spot on.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Don't go overboard here: the Vanguard threads can be a cesspool, but there are plenty of other decent discussions going on right now. Brad just seems to be the red flag for rude people (which given his posting style is somewhat understandable). Other than your over-generalization, you're pretty much spot on.

Agreed. The catalysts for these threads isn't Ut or any of the 'haters'. It's the spin. There are many current VG threads that have no problems, and every other thread that doesn't devolve into religion, politics, or PvP is fine as well.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by r.gun

It's not about him trying to prove himself, it's about him using outdated and private information to try and prove a point, failing miserably and getting a good dev in trouble.

The good dev got himself in trouble. If he had not claimed to be the author, nobody would ever find out. In fact half of the community would still think that Utnayan faked the whole story.

[r.gun]

Originally Posted by Neric

The good dev got himself in trouble. If he had not claimed to be the author, nobody would ever find out. In fact half of the community would still think that Utnayan faked the whole story.

So, if Ut is a liar when he doesn't support his argument, and a traitor when he does... what does that make him when he supports his argument with outdated information? A douchebag, like we've all be saying. I don't see how you're missing the point on this Neric.

I agree that Ut isn't completely to blame here, and it's not up to me whether or not he should be banned, or anything, but the fact is that he tried to prove a point with outdated information and in the process got a dev, who by all accounts is very respected on these boards, in some trouble with his employer. Thats a dick move, and Ut deserves all the flak he is getting right now, regardless of whether or not "the good dev got himself in trouble".

[Twobit Whore]

You are assuming he even knew it was outdated. When holymight PM'd him that info from Nino, he didn't have to tell him the date on it. Hell, maybe Ut just got the info last week. Maybe he didn't.. who knows, I don't, and you don't. Only holymight and Utnayan know that. And the admins who can read his PMs.

[r.gun]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

You are assuming he even knew it was outdated. When holymight PM'd him that info from Nino, he didn't have to tell him the date on it. Hell, maybe Ut just got the info last week. Maybe he didn't.. who knows, I don't, and you don't. Only holymight and Utnayan know that. And the admins who can read his PMs.

That's a moot point because he posted it as if it were some reliable source. You can't prove a point on outdated information, especially when the person who wrote the stuff you're quoting calls you out on it. Either get your facts straight, or stfu it's as simple as that.

[Dildo Faggins]

There really must be an understanding of the fact that theres a line that's been crossed with Utnayen's actions. What furor and others have done is harsh criticism. They make their point, often in a not friendly way, then let others argue it out. Furor didnt need to sit at his computer and furiously answer each counter arguement point for point because he could sit back and know that not only was he right, but that people would argue back for him.

What Utnayen is doing is in not like this in any way at all. Instead of criticizing the developers of vanguard, he was heckling them. He lead an unrelenting crusade of "No, im right ur wrong" posts to endlessly counter and reiterate points over and over again. Instead of making well thought out arguements, he decides to compensate with pure flood of arguements. This is basically a forum version of harassment.

Every time a dev comes here to try and be constructive and read opinions, he is instead going to get puked on by a deluge of random shit. When its over, and the developer steps back and looks and what he's created, they certainly have to wonder why the fuck should they bother? The small amount of constructive criticism just gets drowned under heaps of yanay spearheaded by a few people that potential customers are going to look at and garner doubts about the game- even though the realistic thing is you are going to have things about any MMO that will suck during beta. Its a simple damn fact of life. People should point it out, but the endless bickering over how much it sucks or if it will be fixed? That cant be beneficial to a developer.

I really support the idea of a more sterile area for devs. Make it so that you can pose questions, praise, or concern, but just make it simple to maintain. Forum warrioring or bickering in that folder leads to a ban from posting in it, attention whoring and other such look at me things mean ban. If people want to discuss what they think of the game, let them do it in mmo.

One of the main reasons ive come to this forum and stayed here is because of people like brad and nino having the nuts to post here. I enjoy the fact that ive seen them interact with people, and even sent/recieved some pm's from devs. That makes a game much more real to me and is definately the reason i paid for and tried vanguard. I wouldnt of bothered without that direct contact. People like Utnayen chasing the devs off really is a downer for me. Theres still a couple left outside of vanguard that post unless im mistaken, and i hope this board can manage to not chase them off either.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Agreed. The catalysts for these threads isn't Ut or any of the 'haters'. It's the spin. There are many current VG threads that have no problems, and every other thread that doesn't devolve into religion, politics, or PvP is fine as well.

Exactly. If anyone doesn't think this is spot on, go back and read the threads that went down in flaming 'nerd rage'. The one that landed in the Hall of Shame didn't blow up until Brad came in and starting shooting sunshine up everyones asses.

[kohl]

Originally Posted by r.gun

That's a moot point because he posted it as if it were some reliable source. You can't prove a point on outdated information, especially when the person who wrote the stuff you're quoting calls you out on it. Either get your facts straight, or stfu it's as simple as that.

I agree. Ut should have PM'd Nino and said "hey man, I'm about to verbally take this metal bat to your scrotum; could you take a moment to clarify a few points?"