Vanguard Patch Notes Update #1

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Tinz

Gosh Charlie Brown, please don't take your football and go home, we all promise to suck up to you.

No, it's called having some class and tact in an attempt to foster dialogs between gamers and developers. It's been made clear that those who run this board want developers posting and an environment where such dialogs can occur. I don't mind flaming ideas, foul language, etc. In fact, I like that people are passionate here and speak their minds. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, etc.

But asking that people lose their jobs over a game and then you interpreting this as me wanting someone to suck up to me? Grow up and I'll let the moderators and regular posters decide if they want this crap and no developer interaction from Sigil or some degree of tact.

[Eternal]

Emo meltdown in 10.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

The customer generally does not care about the people behind the product, he cares about the product and what he gets out of it. The seller cares about getting the customer to buy more of his product, be it in the short or long run, and little else. Sure it's callous, but that's society for you.

If you want generic customer service, then play the game and petition if you have an issue require customer service. If you think that me posting here and sharing ideas and engaging in dialogs and listening to feedback isn't desirable, then don't read my posts. I come here to learn, talk, explain, evangelize, etc. I really think the MMOG community, both devs and players, makes these much more than games -- more than services even. That's why I take the time when I can to post.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

No, it's called having some class and tact in an attempt to foster dialogs between gamers and developers. It's been made clear that those who run this board want developers posting and an environment where such dialogs can occur. I don't mind flaming ideas, foul language, etc. In fact, I like that people are passionate here and speak their minds. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, etc.

But asking that people lose their jobs over a game and then you interpreting this as me wanting someone to suck up to me? Grow up and I'll let the moderators and regular posters decide if they want this crap and no developer interaction from Sigil or some degree of tact.

Okay then, here's a rather tactful question: given that you've released what you admit is not yet a fully finished game (due to cashflow issues as you stated some time ago), how do you hope to overcome the negative publicity you've been recieving from many reviewers/players who weren't aware of the context in which this game was released? (after all, EQ2 is light-years ahead of where it was on release and it still has to deal with the stigma attached to it at launch...the same with DDO)

Also, one more question (in light of the post I just now saw above): what does evangelization entail, to you?

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Okay then, here's a rather tactful question: given that you've released what you admit is not yet a fully finished game (due to cashflow issues as you stated some time ago), how do you hope to overcome the negative publicity you've been recieving from many reviewers/players who weren't aware of the context in which this game was released? (after all, EQ2 is light-years ahead of where it was on release and it still has to deal with the stigma attached to it at launch...the same with DDO)

By working as hard as we can do address the issues quickly in an attempt to avoid such a stigma, which I think we can. And also by keeping an open dialog with the players, continuing to support community, and letting people know not just want issues are being addressed or bugs fixed, but also cool new features and enhancements they can look forward to.

I think if we stay on this we can avoid such a stigma. The game is already a blast, and it will only get better, and we have so much planned for it. It is a shame we didn't have more time to polish up and fix some things at the end, but that was beyond our control. I don't blame anyone either, as we have been very blessed to be able to build a game like Vanguard, to have a company of 100 or so people, and to work on our dreams. In any case, I think the stigma can be avoided if people see progress and a solid light at the end of the tunnel. If there's no light, or if the game is fundamentally flawed, then that stigma can be a lot harder to avoid.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Also, one more question (in light of the post I just now saw above): what does evangelization entail, to you?

Promoting the game, talking to people about it, explaining things, listening and gathering feedback, etc. Some people don't care for that, and it's come up in the past on the board, but by and large the majority seem to want developers here posting, promoting, interacting, etc. As long as that's true, I'm glad to be here, both personally and professionally.

[chackle]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

'
So the complaint that like I've said I've been hearing since the early EQ days that if we patch in, say, a tweak (be it positive or a dreaded nerf), that we are somehow not fixing bugs. They're *not* mutually exclusive. A development team is a group of specialists who work together collaberatively but each have their areas of responsibility.

We're fully aware of that, what we are saying is why is the guy who is charge of programming class abilities doing shit like making an attack like fleetblade do more damage when it is so far off the radar for rangers? Why isn't he making dex work for ranged attacks rather than strength? Why isn't he fixing tame, which currently is an evocation spell?

Look at this thread:

The Ranger Class: Useless Ability after Useless Ability - Vanguard Rangers

This is what your customers are concerned about. Why not meet a great majority of those needs asap in the hope that they'd be happy enough to stay around as paying customers?

You've got a hell of a lot of people who have bought this game knowing it was still in beta in the expectation that broken shit would be fixed as a priority. I'm talking flat out broken abilities. We appreciate you coming in and fostering discussion, but that's what we want, discussion. Not you waxing lyrical about your grand plans for your ferrari of a game whilst we're looking at it with no wheels on. We know you have ambition, what we want is results.

[Kylax]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

...or if the game is fundamentally flawed, then that stigma can be a lot harder to avoid.

I simply just cannot play this game. When players are running by me it looks like they are just floating along. I have never seen such a bug ridden game in my life. With spells not working as intended I am going to go out on a branch and say that's fundamentally flawed.


I see nothing that makes me say, wow I cannot do this in any other mmorpg (only doing the 10 day trial). So unimaginative. I came across this while adventuring.

ImageShack - Hosting :: amazinglm6.jpg

All the trainers are just standing there in the open. No houses, landmarks (besides the rinky dink ruins across the road). It leaves nothing to the imagination. At least in wow they throw down some supplies, a tent and you think to yourself, gee they must have gotten off the road and set up camp to avoid those gnolls over there.

That's the biggest thing I think your game lacks Brad, is immersion.

[Tinz]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

But asking that people lose their jobs over a game and then you interpreting this as me wanting someone to suck up to me? Grow up and I'll let the moderators and regular posters decide if they want this crap and no developer interaction from Sigil or some degree of tact.

Well, I wasn't the one who suggested anyone should be fired, and suck up to you was probably a poor choice of words, but c'mon. Threatening to stop posting here, which you've done twice now in this thread, cause people said things you didn't like? Why not follow your own advice and grow up or not read those posts? Sorry for the derail, I'll let you get back to trying to sell your product.

[Kaxmax]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

No, it's called having some class and tact in an attempt to foster dialogs between gamers and developers. It's been made clear that those who run this board want developers posting and an environment where such dialogs can occur. I don't mind flaming ideas, foul language, etc. In fact, I like that people are passionate here and speak their minds. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, etc.

But asking that people lose their jobs over a game and then you interpreting this as me wanting someone to suck up to me? Grow up and I'll let the moderators and regular posters decide if they want this crap and no developer interaction from Sigil or some degree of tact.

Obviously I don't actually want someone fired. It's incredible that actually set you off after all the bullshit you've put up with here. Regardless, my apologies. I actually like your team quite a bit, and was guilded with a few of them in EQ.

That being said, if you're going to comment on "class and tact", you may want to go back and re-read the marketing whitewash you put on this board in the last year (and are still doing in this very thread), and then compare it to the state of your game. You hyped the shit out of VG here, you're going to have to take some lumps that the people who bought it (myself included) are pissed that it doesn't come close to living up to your promises.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

In any case, I think the stigma can be avoided if people see progress and a solid light at the end of the tunnel. If there's no light, or if the game is fundamentally flawed, then that stigma can be a lot harder to avoid.

Seeing as the MMO business is very hype driven, how do you hope to make Vanguard stand out once the next wave of MMOs (LOTRO, AoC, possibly WAR and Chronicles of Spellborn) hits later this year? Are you planning some sort of re-launch ad campaign? Will you be addressing issues with the game's engine?

And last but not least: if you really want to boost your playerbase, I suggest you implement my gnome-eating horse concept.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...rse#post575811

[Darus Grey]

Just random bitching from me, but who seriously thought Striking powders were overpowered?

They're the only damn thing that made player crafted weapons competitive with world drops, the problem is weaponsmiths cannot sell jackshit *except* striking because its needed to push items to be competitive with world drops.

They're not exactly common either, I've spent an entire Plat on decons without getting a single one of the powders/shards I actually wanted.

Even if my weapons lost a measily 5dps that'd push them into the category of rare world drops which often sell for under *half* the cost to even make the item, and thats only for 1handers. Weaponsmith 2handed weapons are pure garbage whose heroics items(and UR materials really are fuckin ultra rare, least on my server), are often still worse than a yellow world drop only 1 or 2 levels higher.

The entire Weaponsmith market is in making luxury items that have a couple extra DPS over world-drops because people are willing to pay 400% premiums for "The best", there is no inbetween. The lower end of the market making nonupgraded pyrite/mithril weapons is working on 10s margins...For the time investment grinding WOs for cash is actually more efficent.

So if the striking changes go in as announced on test server, you've managed to accomplish making a truely absolutely useless crafting class, I wish I was exaggerating.

The entire Weaponsmith class needs to be re-evaluated, because it is simply not able to compete in terms of usefulness or market.
I'm sure in meetings or wherever you look at things like proc rates, powders that add procs, and stuff like that...and maybe on paper that seems balanced.

But the reality is the people buying my product only give a rat's ass about ONE stat...DPS. They ignore everything else, I could make heroic items that had some awesome 2kdmg proc that made them deal the equivalent of 100DPS.
But if the weapon itself only displays 29dps then customers will pass over it almost every single time in favor of some 32dps world drop that is on the broker for 1/4 the price of the base materials for the first one(assuming I was selling it at cost for some reason...).

As I said, in your minds this may all work in theory, but on my end, out there "doing it" its seriously fuckedup, you may know your game, but I know my market, and thats how they think.

/rant off

Edit: I've also had people bugging me for refunds all day, thanks alot, seriously, thanks for siphoning the fun out of the one thing in this game I was enjoying.

[Naelael]

Wow guys... I would prefer he kept posting on here no matter if he is pimping the game at the same time or not. I enjoy Vanguard quite a bit, and am really happy to see that Brad is posting here. The only reason I even knew is because I fixed the XML feed on my outlook...

[Duppin]

Gee, wait, Vanguard gets flamed constantly by a devoted group of the worst posters on this board, and he's often subjected to some of the nastiest personal attacks I've seen on the interwebs...but he's not allowed to lose his temper or imply that he might be tired of posting here when he has to take so much shit here on a constant basis?

As I've said in other threads, after playing it a while Vanguard isn't my cup of tea...but some of you need to learn some fucking social skills.

Badly.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Luckily we have you Dupp to prove that even Utnayan wasn't the worst poster here.