Vanguard Patch Notes Update #1

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Shardokar

agreed, u cant even chat while fighting in eq2, too mauch ability

and what does that have to do with VG? VG doesnt have 5 version of every spell and ability that do the same exact thing like EQ2. Don;t confuse the issue with comparisons that mean nothing.

[Vaxxx]

Originally Posted by Danth

Autoattack has a practical value in the sort of game where you have to hit something over the head with a hammer 30 times in order to kill it. You might like making decisions--I doo too--but in truth there's often little decision to be made beyond, "what will make this mob dead most quickly?" In addition, I'm getting old enough that RSI is a real concern; Vanguard is about as button-mashy as I can physically tolerate.

There's a good middle ground. EQ warriors were obviously too far on one side of that middle ground. It's possible that some newer games might be moving too far in the opposite direction. Different people will have different tolerances for various amounts of button-pushing. That's fine and in fact can be one of the strengths of a class-based game; different classes can and should be designed to require different amounts of input.

I would not want any form of autoattack or autotarget in, say, a combat flightsim or a shooter game. I look for a different experience in those sort of games than what I seek in a PvE-based MMORPG.

Danth

You are right Danth people have different tolerances for Button mashing, and chances are I am more like you, I can only tolerate so much for so long. However that was not my point. My point is that auto attack while I understand it as a mechanic does little for actual game play.

I mean which is better to you, doing an extra 35 damage per auto swing, or doing an extra 350 damage on Marshalling Cry (pretty sure your a pally, correct me if I am wrong) You will hit your specials in this game and since you must use them to do any sort of damage, make my special number larger and if need be my auto attack numbers lower.

That is all.

[Nino]

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

On my DK every attack is doing an auto-attack swing's worth of damage less. Ok I see how it was bugged, but when it was bugged it was balanced DPS wise, so the correct thing to do, in order to balance the game, is to adjust all the abilities up from 100% weapon damage to 200% weapon damage (150% weapon damage becomes 250% weapon damage, 400% becomes 500%, etc) so that our DPS is back in line with where it should be.

Even if you don't adjust it, I can live with that actually. I'll be a weaker, imbalanced class, but then so will every other melee class including healers. You'll have to nerf casters next patch to bring them down (otherwise no tank will be able to hold aggro from the unnerfed caster DPS), and the idea of soloing 2 dot mobs will become a thing of the past and you can label this as officially a grouping only game like you seem to want to do, but fine, I can live with that. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FIX SCYTHE OF DOOM. This ability is absolutely useless in its current implementation. Change it to 150% weapon damage from the set numerical amount, the 25% will work itself out from there. As it currently stands this ability does 50 damage, healing me for 13. It costs 37 out of 100 endurance. I have 2,300 hit points. Logic wru?

I saw a changelist note last night that listed this as being addressed. I believe it now heals for 100% of the damage it deals.


So, I played my cleric last night for a bit. I am level 19 and in what most people would consider standard to crappy gear. My damage felt about the same, but I could definately see a difference in my mitigation. It felt like I was taking a bit more damage and having to heal more often.

The patch this morning corrected some inbalances with some abilities that made some classes feel far weaker than we had intended. Try it out today/tonight and see what it feels like.

I whoeheartedly agree with fixing the bugs, and it is being done in tandem with balancing the classes. I get as nervous as anyone else when I see changes to my archetype or class. We will endeavor to minimize the amount of 'negative' changes you see from here on out. That does not mean there won't be a few here and there. We absolutely have to maintain the integrity and balance of the game.

This was our first 'real' patch and there were some mistakes. Those mistakes won't happen again. (We'll make new ones!) Heck, there are still things I saw missing last night that will need to get addressed today.

[Bongk]

first off I know people are going to bitch becuse what I am about to say about 3 dotters but oh well...

Last night I was soloing 3-dot level 23 ghostly mariners and sailors for a quest. I had started this quest the day before and got halfway done.

For comparison sake I am a lvl 23 dsc with very good gear including to 2 rare lvl 30 fist (24dps) fist wraps.

The day before I would fight them and they would die before my endurance tap would wear off (it lasts 60 seconds)

Last night it took me 6 casts of end drain to beat them. So it was taking 6x longer and 6 minutes+ to beat the same mob that took 1 minute or less the day before.

Yes i know i shouldnt be soloing 3 dotters my level blah blah used it for comparison. I would call that a HUGE nerf even larger than the last one for me for some reason.

[Eternal]

Originally Posted by Vaxxx

Maybe im playing a different game. I have a few banks of hot keys, I very rarely feel like I am mashing buttons. I usually feel like I am making a choice.

Who knows I could be wrong, and Vanguard has way too many button clicks. We really need to get back to the days of EQ where I just hit attack and let my mind drift off.

Bolero's opinion is the conventional wisdom regarding EQ2, I am sure 20% reduction is doable but saying 6 banks of abilities is just blowing smoke.

[Hachima]

Anyone find some of the new skills yet?

In addition:

- Players can now learn new abilities by observing their enemies.
__________________
-James "Elrar" Nichols
Community Representative
Sigil Games Online

[Danth]

"Anyone find some of the new skills yet?"

I've read that 'Blood Oath' (Paladin) is one such skill, but I do not yet know where it can be obtained.


Vaxxx--I find I do more damage overall when I chain my specials along with my normal attacks, as well as maintain my endurance pool better (important as a tank). As such, autoattack makes up a signifigant part of my overall damage output. 5 specials is typically not as effective as 4 specials along with 4 autoattacks over the 10-second period it takes to perform that many attack rounds. I make no claim that the same is true for all classes, but it works for me.

Danth

[Kazgrim]

I saw a changelist note last night that listed this as being addressed. I believe it now heals for 100% of the damage it deals.

I saw that in the list someone else posted. I wholeheartedly disagree with this being the fix for it. Surely you can see why this is not the best way to fix this ability?

Previous to this patch, the ability was "bugged" as in it did autoattack+50 damage (so maybe 150-200 damage @ lvl 18) per mob in front of you, healing you for 25% of the damage it does to each mob. It cost 37 endurance.

The ability cannot be used continuously, its capped not by cooldowns but by the endurance cost, so it cannot be used to continuously heal yourself. It has very little use soloing. It's a waste of endurance on anything less than 3 mobs. It being a frontal AE it naturally scales, the more damage it does, means the more damage you are taking from multiple mobs attacking you. It's best use is to mitigate a tiny portion of incoming damage while adding threat to multiple mobs you are tanking. its threat ability on multiple mobs is really its only purpose, as an attack it was very weak, and as a self heal it was laughable. On the whole the ability was barely servicable for its endurance cost, it was used only to add threat on non damaged adds in the beginning of combat to prevent them from charging healers out the gate.

That was in its bugged state. Now it does its flat 50 damage per mob, and heals for 50. Now the ability does not scale at all, and it no longer adds enough threat to adds to warrant the 37 endurance cost. We didn't use this ability as a heal to begin with, and even if we did, in its improved state, 50X3 = 150 hp is a joke when you have 3 mobs beating on you. At the very least make the ability 100% weapon damage + 50 for the first rank, you can reduce the healing component back down to 25%, hell you can get rid of it and reduce the endurance cost if you want to be nice to us. Allow the ability to perform its only function, Allow it to scale as we get better gear and fight harder opponents. Give us a reason to use it, that's all I ask.

edit: btw Nino tell Brad that whoever wrote the cat furry lore (kurashasa or whatever) and designed their newbie zones needs a raise, stat. Moorcock's multiverse mythos + planescape equals a whole lot of win. Most intriquing new player experience i've seen in a MMO to date, certainly much better than I expected from an elves and orcs men-in-tights high fantasy MMO.

[Xitix]

Anything you just mindlessly button mash when it pops may as well be removed and the damage output rolled into autoattack.

Another option would be to allow say SHIFT-CLICK of a button on the hotbar to roll that attack/ability/spell to autofire whenever it pops when autoattack is on. Less button mashing for easy mobs but the choice to micro manage every attack/spell/skill would still be there when you wanted it. I find too much button mashing to be tiring these days.

[Camerous]

Dear GOD you fuckers are never satsified...

Eq days: *whine* We don't have enough variety! Just not enough to do!
Eq2 Days: *cry* Too many buttons! Too much to do!
VG days: We don't know if there are too many or too few buttons to press but we are gonna whine anyway! *cry bitch moan*

More buttons the better. If you don't want to use them all? Don't! It's that simple. Bunch of crybabies on this board now I swear. Out of all the shit you could be whining about you whine cause there are too many buttons to press? That's about stupid.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Xitix

Anything you just mindlessly button mash when it pops may as well be removed and the damage output rolled into autoattack.

Another option would be to allow say SHIFT-CLICK of a button on the hotbar to roll that attack/ability/spell to autofire whenever it pops when autoattack is on. Less button mashing for easy mobs but the choice to micro manage every attack/spell/skill would still be there when you wanted it. I find too much button mashing to be tiring these days.

umm have you played the game? you cant just mash anything as it pops, they all have costs that are quickly depleted.

[Hachima]

Got to love the hidden nerfs. Disciples got nerfed more with this nightly reset patch. Soul Cutter is now 33 endurance and only lowers hatred by 1. (use to be 20 end yesterday and was only 10 end at release and a lot more hatred reduction)

[Vaxxx]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Dear GOD you fuckers are never satsified...

Eq days: *whine* We don't have enough variety! Just not enough to do!
Eq2 Days: *cry* Too many buttons! Too much to do!
VG days: We don't know if there are too many or too few buttons to press but we are gonna whine anyway! *cry bitch moan*

More buttons the better. If you don't want to use them all? Don't! It's that simple. Bunch of crybabies on this board now I swear. Out of all the shit you could be whining about you whine cause there are too many buttons to press? That's about stupid.

Not sure if your post is directed at me Camerous, I was never "whining" about button pressing, in fact I find Vanguard to be pretty good about it so far, what I was complaining about was if the Devs are increasing auto attack damage while decreasing special damage. That to me is a step backwards in terms of game play. That is all.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Hachima

Got to love the hidden nerfs. Disciples got nerfed more with this nightly reset patch. Soul Cutter is now 33 endurance and only lowers hatred by 1. (use to be 20 end yesterday and was only 10 end at release and a lot more hatred reduction)

Sigil is looking like the most clueless mmog company ever lately... it is really freaking hard to stay with this game as a dsc.

The thing is I know why they want to nerf us as we can solo shit noone else can but other healers or people using borderline exploits. But I can still solo anything I could on release day. It just sucks a whole lot more and takes longer. But the nerfs have really accomplished nothing. We were never the best levelers or such, we could just fight the hardest mobs and nothing has changed in that regard.

It is just a shitload less fun.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Vaxxx

Not sure if your post is directed at me Camerous, I was never "whining" about button pressing, in fact I find Vanguard to be pretty good about it so far, what I was complaining about was if the Devs are increasing auto attack damage while decreasing special damage. That to me is a step backwards in terms of game play. That is all.

nah it was directed at Danth and Shardokar.

Discs have been nerfed more than any single class in the game yet I still see rangers, clerics, druids, Psi, and blood mages soloing the same stuff yet they BUFF 2 of those classes... does that make any fucking sense at all?