Missing things from Vanguard

[Bolero]

Well, you can spend days faction grinding, camping for rare quest drops and dealing with buggy quests for armor, or you can go to the broker and buy crafted that is arguably as good.

Hell, right now at 30 my blood mage is so overpowered that I could easily level to 50 wearing nothing but crap greens and still be able to solo 3 dots several levels above me and solo heal a group. Why waste time with these armor quests that are more annoying than fun when you don't even need the reward?

Frankly I hate the quests for armor. I would prefer it if the majority of gear came from drops like EQ1. That way people are more unique in what they wear. How many people have the CIS cloak? Bleh.

[Cabales]

Vinen, I'm not belittling the efforts that go into leveling up crafting skill (I know I certainly don't have the patience for it). What I'm saying is I want to be able to gear up directly through adventuring, not saving up for a virtual shopping spree. I'm not criticizing the choice, but if that's the end all be all for gear then it's not the right choice for me. I don't mind if there are a few really epic pieces of crafted gear, but my whole kit is basically crafted right now. It just seems to me that if crafted gear outpaces dungeon drops, then why bother with dungeons at all? Just grind missives and two dot mobs and save cash for the next tier of crafted gear. I know that dungeons are fun for their own sake, but it just removes one of the big, maybe the biggest carrot, from the adventuring sphere.


edit* drops as opposed to quest rewards would be fine with me Bolero, preferable even. I just don't want to hit the broker up for the majority of my gear, especially not at launch when the market isn't overloaded with droppable gear being cast off by higher leveled players.

[teneran]

Originally Posted by Cabales

Vinen, I'm not belittling the efforts that go into leveling up crafting skill (I know I certainly don't have the patience for it). What I'm saying is I want to be able to gear up directly through adventuring, not saving up for a virtual shopping spree. I'm not criticizing the choice, but if that's the end all be all for gear then it's not the right choice for me. I don't mind if there are a few really epic pieces of crafted gear, but my whole kit is basically crafted right now. It just seems to me that if crafted gear outpaces dungeon drops, then why bother with dungeons at all? Just grind missives and two dot mobs and save cash for the next tier of crafted gear. I know that dungeons are fun for their own sake, but it just removes one of the big, maybe the biggest carrot, from the adventuring sphere.


edit* drops as opposed to quest rewards would be fine with me Bolero, preferable even. I just don't want to hit the broker up for the majority of my gear, especially not at launch when the market isn't overloaded with droppable gear being cast off by higher leveled players.

Its got to be balanced. Crafters need to be able to offer gear, at least in some instances, as good or better than any quest or dungeon will yield. Otherwise, what's the point of crafting?

And yes, the level of effort required to get a crafter to high levels is staggering. So ... if you go through this and can't offer anyone anything but second rate gear/armor etc., what's the point of crafting in the first place?

The point is, if you want the very best gear you might not be able to get it all by just adventuring ... and that's a good thing. At the same time, it can't be unbalanced either way where the best route is all crafted or all drops/quests.

[Drtyrm]

I think Cabales is looking at it as a motivational issue for him. If you want certain drops, you find a group, you camp the dungeon for your sword, FBSS or your particular trinket. If you are able to just buy the primo item, it doesn't matter what "adventuring" you do, you just are farming.

I'm in the same boat in WoW right now. My shadow priest is best outfitted in tailored gear. Improving my character's power would be best served by farming gold instead of running instances.

[Cabales]

I can see the logic in what you're saying, and like I said I don't mind having some (read "a small amount") of gear that can not be outdone with drops from named mobs/long quest rewards etc..., but if crafted gear is typically the best option it just sucks the fun right out the game for me. What's the point of pushing yourself to fight a tough named mob at the bottom of a dungeon (after camping him and waiting for the spawn I might add) if the gear is inferior to something I can just purchase off of a broker? Keep in mind we aren't talking about some beautifully scripted epic fight here(at least I haven't seen or heard of anything like that yet, maybe it's there at higher levels). In a MMO I want to know that the if I put forth the effort to build groups and spend most of my time in the bowels of the local dungeon that I should come out of there, assuming success, with some pretty bad ass gear. Not stuff that nobody in the group wants to wear, and that sells on the broker for 20 copper.

This is not a criticism of the game, but just an attempt to determine the direction that they are heading. I would like to know so that I don't hang on for 30 more levels assuming that this is an itemization issue that is being worked on only to discover that it was part of the vision all along. I'll admit right off the bat that I am not a fan of crafting, and if it was up to me crafting would not be a main focus of MMO's. However, I recognize that the desire is out there and I just want to find the environment that best fits me as a player.

I don't want this to sound like a whining complaining post. It's not meant that way at all. The only reason I was really asking about this here is I know many of the folks here have advanced further than me so far and may be able to tell me that things change as you advance. I also know Nino and Tagad and a few others post here and may be able to tell me that it's an itemization issue they are working on, or that it is intended to be this way.

*edit Drtrym is correct, and far more concise than I am I might add.

[teneran]

I'm not disagreeing with you two guys about what is a valid opinion. I'm just wanting you guys to hear that if things were as you describe, there would be zero reason to craft in the game considering the huge effort it takes to be a top level crafter. Certainly raising something like blacksmithing would make zero sense if there was never a need for higher levels for crafted armor/weapons.

Where I'm going is you all seem to want a different game, a game where crafting is an aftethought or amusment or way to just make bags rather than a viable alternative to adventuring.

As for the direction or vision of where the game is going, I have no idea since I just play it same as you do but as it stands right now, considering the enormous effort required to become a top crafter, i can't see any other viable alternative than to allow crafters to be able to make top gear, at least in some cases. otherwise its "grats on becoming a level 50 weaponsmith!", "oh, btw, you can't make anything any players would really want because all the top gear is obtained in raids and dungeons ...."

See how that doesn't work?

[Cabales]

I absolutely do see how it works. Just trying to determine if that is indeed the plan.

[Nairbog]

In other games where crafted gear was not as good as the best items obtained adventuring, crafters still had a purpose and still made sales. It's not as if you can go into a dungeon and obtain rare drops for every slot in a day. The best thing to do was to fill out the slots you don't have rares for yet with crafted gear, and slowly replace them with rare adventuring items. If crafters make the BEST items in the game and it trivializes dungeon content, then that is a huge problem.

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by Nairbog

In other games where crafted gear was not as good as the best items obtained adventuring, crafters still had a purpose and still made sales. It's not as if you can go into a dungeon and obtain rare drops for every slot in a day. The best thing to do was to fill out the slots you don't have rares for yet with crafted gear, and slowly replace them with rare adventuring items. If crafters make the BEST items in the game and it trivializes dungeon content, then that is a huge problem.

Not if you tie the two together. Crafters could make grand things with drops from top level dungeons/raids. This would require adventures to work together with crafts(or be both yourself) in order to utilitize all of the components you find.

[Drtyrm]

I didn't say one was better than the other. A game's design should allow for some amount of equivalency. Perhaps dividing up the gear slots, so some "best" items are crafted and some are dropped, would be balanced.