Vanguard Update #1 + First Test Server Patch Notes

[kohl]

Originally Posted by Trebla

I hated zoning in WoW... and it happened all the time. Spending 1-2 minutes running through an empty tunnel/pass/bridge/whatever is just as bad as staring at a loading screen. The 5 second chunks in Vanguard are beautiful by comparison.

Unless you are a Chinaman gold farmer, running in and out of instances I don't see how zoning "happens all the time".

There is actually a mod (probably a couple) that cuts down on zone loading times (riding a zep, etc). I don't know how it does it, but its extremely effective.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by redjunkopera

It's good thing Vanguard is the only game around or that attitude could really hurt them. Oh wait...

yes because every other game out there pleases every single person on the face of the earth.

[ElGallo]

Originally Posted by kohl

Unless you are a Chinaman gold farmer, running in and out of instances I don't see how zoning "happens all the time".

There is actually a mod (probably a couple) that cuts down on zone loading times (riding a zep, etc). I don't know how it does it, but its extremely effective.

I think he thinks that running through the valley connecting Mulgore and the Barrens is functionally the same as zoning.

[Vinen]

Originally Posted by ElGallo

I think he thinks that running through the valley connecting Mulgore and the Barrens is functionally the same as zoning.

Feels like it to me~

[Araxen]

1-2 minutes for zoning in WoW? It takes me at most to zone in WoW 10 seconds, if that. Upgrade your damn pc's, WoW is the Counterstrike of MMO's everybody should be able to run it decent.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Digits

I figure that there's nothing wrong with a few seconds of loading between zones, seeing as how they are pretty huge,

Well thats the rub isn't it ? Not to state the obvious but if the game actually has loading times between "zones" or "chunks" then it's not a seamless world. It's a world with invisible zone lines and no "chokepoint doorways" to other zones, that I grant you, but it's not seamless.

Many people wonder why VG and it's developers raise so much ire across many members of the community and I present this as a shining example of one very basic, very simple thing that does just that.

Why they just can't call it what it is, and instead choose to misrepresent their world (when it seems to only open them up for controversy) is truly a mystery to me.

Talk about setting yourself up to fail, sheesh.

[Ellsworth]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Well thats the rub isn't it ? Not to state the obvious but if the game actually has loading times between "zones" or "chunks" then it's not a seamless world. It's a world with invisible zone lines and no "chokepoint doorways" to other zones, that I grant you, but it's not seamless.

Many people wonder why VG and it's developers raise so much ire across many members of the community and I present this as a shining example of one very basic, very simple thing that does just that.

Why they just can't call it what it is, and instead choose to misrepresent their world (when it seems to only open them up for controversy) is truly a mystery to me.

Talk about setting yourself up to fail, sheesh.

Way to articulate what I was saying Hiram.

This is where I came from with VG.

I was very skeptical of 'no instance' stance they took. I personally like instances, and think there are many positive things gained by using them in a limited way. But, since VG was supposed to be so advanced, and in many ways had features that interested me [tons of classes, huge world, early mounts, *seamless world*] I thought I'd give it a try.

Without even really getting to play much, the *seamless* world idea is destroyed. I know exactly where the seams are, and they jack my gameplay up. Zoning in WoW is a little journey [incredibly short, compared to the retarded long travel times in VG. I don't mind travel times once or twice, but to run back and forth between the same two areas over and over again is not 'immersive' its just tedious, but I digress] I was saying that zoning in WoW is just a short journey from zone to zone and then voila, you're in the new zone. A little note on the screen and a change of 'general' channel to the new zone, and you're done.

I dreaded 'chunking' in VG, possibly because it was far more clumsy than WoW's implementation of zoning [it is a step up from EQ obviously] and possibly because they claimed no such zoning would take place.

[Kolle]

k

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by Aethn Anvel

You were there in EQ1 from the beginning just like us, you know just how shitty the patches were that came out of Test Server EQ1 for the last 8 years because casual players created some shitty fake community and never tested anything unless forced too.

A bit late, but I wanted to point out how grossly inaccurate this is.

EQ Test players consistently /bug'd things that came up. I know because I did it myself as well as others I talked to. Did things that we know were bugged and that we reported still go Live on a frequent basis? Yup.

When we were asked to test something, most people jumped at the chance. For common rank-and-file stuff, this was pretty rare. For raids, there was one major raid org that was, for all intents and purposes, the Dev's test bed. Later I was in a different raid org which also helped whenever needed or bugged anything we found, though we were significantly further behind in content.

A dev posted a few months ago that the Test community is doing exactly what they want them to do; play the game as they normally would and report any bugs that they run across.

I won't even touch your idiotic "shitty fake community" statement. I'll just assure you that you are wrong.

To the VG Devs who read here (well, Nino I guess,) I advise that you need consistent communication with the Test playerbase. Let them know what new features you are implementing. Let them know the proper procedures for reporting bugs and submitting comments. Let them know what you want tested if there is something specific. Be ready to restore lost characters/items/XP when you can (though most should understand it is not required and that true GM assistance/CS is not guaranteed.)

Let your community know up front what the Test Server is for. Will you only bring up once in awhile to test patches? Is it a server which will stay up consistently a la EQ1? Will you be wiping/copying characters over on a regular basis? Is it just to test raid/higher level content?

Keep in mind that much of your Test populace will be people who generally want to make VG better... they want to do what they can to help you improve the game. All of this while dealing with game stopping bugs, server crashes, lost items/xp, a smaller playerbase, etc. Treat 'em right.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Well thats the rub isn't it ? Not to state the obvious but if the game actually has loading times between "zones" or "chunks" then it's not a seamless world. It's a world with invisible zone lines and no "chokepoint doorways" to other zones, that I grant you, but it's not seamless.

Many people wonder why VG and it's developers raise so much ire across many members of the community and I present this as a shining example of one very basic, very simple thing that does just that.

Why they just can't call it what it is, and instead choose to misrepresent their world (when it seems to only open them up for controversy) is truly a mystery to me.

Talk about setting yourself up to fail, sheesh.

No, there isnt any load times, at least not for me. Its a stop, basically if your moving forward, you stop and you have to push the run button again to start running.

And im sure this will be further refined to be totally seamless, its about 90% there already.

What did everyone expect? Magical server farm to host 3 massive continents without some sort of "zoning" , "chunking" or whatever?

I seem to recall Blizzard claiming that WoW had no "zones" either. But yet every area was its own little zone with chokeways etc.../shrug

[Filthgrinder]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

And im sure this will be further refined to be totally seamless,

Not true, you're making an assumption without fully understanding that the Unreal 2 engine that they developed the VG engine from, does actually have a few limitations that are never going to allow chunk loading to be 100% invisible when crossing between them. Consider yourself quite lucky to be getting such generous chunk times.

[Wizerud]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Well thats the rub isn't it ? Not to state the obvious but if the game actually has loading times between "zones" or "chunks" then it's not a seamless world. It's a world with invisible zone lines and no "chokepoint doorways" to other zones, that I grant you, but it's not seamless.

Many people wonder why VG and it's developers raise so much ire across many members of the community and I present this as a shining example of one very basic, very simple thing that does just that.

Why they just can't call it what it is, and instead choose to misrepresent their world (when it seems to only open them up for controversy) is truly a mystery to me.

Talk about setting yourself up to fail, sheesh.

Like you said in your previous post though if you have the machine for it, it could be seamless. I don't know, has anyone got a machine good enough where they experience no chunk-hitching AT ALL at any time?

I remember sending Brad a message about this around 18 months ago. Even if there's a one-tenth second hitch while moving to another, ahem, zone people will say it isn't seamless. I guess technically they are correct.

On my almost 4 year old machine I pause for anything between 1 second (where I've visited that zone already so it's in cache) or 5 seconds (new zone not visited in current play session). It doesn't bother me but it is jarring because I've no idea where chunks begin and end. I'd almost prefer one of those first down lines like you see in football games to indicate chuck borders

[Whoknows]

Originally Posted by Filthgrinder

Not true, you're making an assumption without fully understanding that the Unreal 2 engine that they developed the VG engine from, does actually have a few limitations that are never going to allow chunk loading to be 100% invisible when crossing between them. Consider yourself quite lucky to be getting such generous chunk times.

That is so not true. DOn't pull things out of your rear when you don't know what you're talking about. If you played Lineage 2 you'll realize that an Unreal 2 engine game can be seamless, with no zoning. Sigil needs to call up those guys and see what they can learn as the "chunking" in vanguard really sucks, even if its just for a couple seconds.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

No, there isnt any load times, at least not for me. Its a stop, basically if your moving forward, you stop and you have to push the run button again to start running

Every time I cross a chunk line it's a gamble and here are some things that I risk getting done to me when I go across one. And yes I have had every one of these happen to me.

Crash to desktop

Fall through the world

Randomly get ported 1000s of feet away, and yes even up into the air sometimes to fall to my death even with safe fall, and into areas that are so high I have 0 chance of recovering my tombstone

Get instantly attacked by mobs who are stuck on the chunk line who will not be visible from the other side of the chunk line

Get knocked off my horse

Game locks up my computer causing me to have to do a hard reboot.

And I always, yes every single time, have to wait 30secs to a min every time I cross one. Seamless my ass.

[Ellsworth]

Originally Posted by Camerous

Every time I cross a chunk line it's a gamble and here are some things that I risk getting done to me when I go across one. And yes I have had every one of these happen to me.

Crash to desktop

Fall through the world

Randomly get ported 1000s of feet away, and yes even up into the air sometimes to fall to my death even with safe fall, and into areas that are so high I have 0 chance of recovering my tombstone

Get instantly attacked by mobs who are stuck on the chunk line who will not be visible from the other side of the chunk line

Get knocked off my horse

Game locks up my computer causing me to have to do a hard reboot.

And I always, yes every single time, have to wait 30secs to a min every time I cross one. Seamless my ass.

This defienetly souds 'game breaking to me'.

I have to assume most people arn't getting this kind of performance/bugginess though. That would just be intolerable.