wow - raiding

[FuckYou]

on page one of our realm forum there are nine guilds trying to recruit people for raiding. my guild is one of them. we have members in our guild who are lifelong raiders talking about how stupid it is to raid right now due to terrible itemization and just plain silly roadblocks. (note that the changes to gruul etc. were a step in the right direction.) only my pigheaded "raid or die" mentality is keeping me on the raid bandwagon, but its pretty hard to be positive when you look at the rewards.

2+ months after TBC is out and we have perhaps 2-3 guilds per server killing Gruul, 1 guld per server killing magtheridon, and 0-1 guilds per server actually doing anything in serpentshrine. what the hell is going on here?

no one wants to raid because the content is poorly tuned and the rewards are abyssmal. guilds cant get enough people to even get going on this stuff. long time raiders are saying "fuck it" because of the situation.

[Itzena]

Blizzard figured out that serious raiders aren't where the money is.

[Dis]

* 7 day lock out timers on a 10 MAN RAID - fuck you half of the guild who is keyed but cant go because of unique raid IDs.

* Herioc Cleaves AKA Melee unfriendly instances - fuck you rogues, dps warriors, use your bow, or just watch from the sidelines. O yeah respec prot, or just reroll. How the fuck did the devs think 359 degree cleaves that two shot melee dps is good to go?

* Itemization fuck ups - Why even have a coloring system? Seriously whoever was in charge of itemization needs to get canned.

* Lack of ANY useful LFG tool - Here we are over two years into a game without one useful application for LFG. Not to mention Blizz has turned WoW into one of the most unPuG friendly games ever.

* 45 minute respawns - yeah, casual guilds are digging this game mechanic. Nothing like causing internal strife because someone afks to go answer a phone or whatever, while everyone else is on their ass about being a timer.


I dont see how Blizzard increased their sub count except maybe through gold farmers. In my little world, I have seen more people quit permanently, than I have seen people come back. 2.1 is taking way to fucking long, they need to fix a lot of their shit (cleaves), and rethink the raid lockout timers for these smaller 10 man dungeons.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Blizzard figured out that serious raiders aren't where the money is.

It is affecting casuals as much as raiders. They have basically created new raid mechanics which fuck both types of players.

[Tuco]

Yeah I don't see the issues affecting raiders being attractive to casuals.

Hell, if the raids are so annoying and fruitless that the hardcore raiders don't want to do it, why would the casuals even go near that content?

[Jenison]

I literally just switched my guild to casual. Everyone was recruiting...no one was leaving / looking

My desire to raid is zero right now. I think i've missed 2 raids in my guilds history and now I just dont even care if I step foot in a 25 man. While I still like the game, the raiding is not something I'm looking at doing.

Right now for me and most people in my guild, its alts or just chillin in heroics and shooting the shit on vent.

I know for me, and say what you want about 'OMFG THE GAMEZ IS NOT ITEMS', the itemizing killed it. When a guild walks into Karazhan and starts with a 75% shard rate, something is wrong. And we arnt even talking about epics vs epics. Its epics vs blues that you get from 5 mans.

While we were making progress in killings, the mental situation that we are not making upgrades in our toons was what killed it for many of us. Not one person who took an epic in karaz felt good about it. Most of it was 'Well, I'll try it out see what I can get out of it' type thing

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Dis

It is affecting casuals as much as raiders. They have basically created new raid mechanics which fuck both types of players.

I don't think you understand - the majority of the WoW playerbase has never raided anything, never mind casual raids vs hardcore raids.

Follow the money, and decisions will make sense. You might not agree with them, however....

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Itzena

I don't think you understand - the majority of the WoW playerbase has never raided anything, never mind casual raids vs hardcore raids.

Follow the money, and decisions will make sense.

Im in a casual guild, it is affecting both.

CASUAL PLAYERS IN MY GUILD ARE QUITTING THE GAME BECAUSE OF TBC GAME MECHANICS.

These issues affect both players.

Edit: Out of our 50+ players we have about 27 keyed, as far as our progress, we are still banging our head on the Curator.

[chaos]

My guild is realyl casual, we're working on Prince (would have killed him but got respawns after out last wipe) in our own time, it's still fun. When I look at the future, I see us all quitting or PVPing or something. No way in hell I see us doing SSC. Who was that designed for?

I really just don't understand how they have this in depth raid game that could have been awesome, then shut out 95% of the population from ever progressing past KZ. What is this for? What is everyone else going to do while they make even more raid content? I just don't get it.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Dis

Im in a casual guild, it is affecting both.

CASUAL PLAYERS IN MY GUILD ARE QUITTING THE GAME BECAUSE OF TBC GAME MECHANICS.

These issues affect both players.

Edit: Out of our 50+ players we have about 27 keyed, as far as our progress, we are still banging our head on the Curator.

Chaos and Dis you are not in a casual guild. You raid less but you still a "raider" if albeit just a much less of a hardcore raider.

A casual gamer in WoW terms most likely doesn't even have 1 HEROIC KEY...

A casual gamer stepped into MC and saw the first few bosses and has never downed Rag. Let alone go into BWl or AQ20.

A casual guild's version of "raiding" is UBRS and ZG.

Think of it like that and you will see how where you are at doesn't repersent the majority of the WoW playerbase I.E. WoW money.

[Ravensign]

For what it's worth, the loot in TBC just seems to be completely fubarred. The color's of items make no sense, and the "tier 4 and 5" armor make no sense to me (at least for mages).

Originally Posted by Dis

* Itemization fuck ups - Why even have a coloring system? Seriously whoever was in charge of itemization needs to get canned.

That's some true shit right there ^^

I am pretty casual, I am in a guild (or was before I let my sub lapse) that can do basic 10 man content like Karhzahn or whatever... but I can't get up for even bothering, because the rewards just don't excite me.

Maybe it's me, but the rewards I got from 60-70 in TBC just so BLEW AWAY my old gear (as a casual mage).

I am much better equipped just from plebeian questing, over a huge PvP grind... it doesn't make sense.

I "benefit" from it, but I don't understand it, nor does it engage me. I wanted to do at least some raiding in old-WoW to get armor sets and to get better for pvp, but I lost any urge now.

I already have all the talents that matter, and all the spells that matter, and gear that is "good enough" without any raiding at all --- I don't think that's right.

[James]

Originally Posted by Itzena

I don't think you understand - the majority of the WoW playerbase has never raided anything, never mind casual raids vs hardcore raids.

Follow the money, and decisions will make sense. You might not agree with them, however....

Yeah, but it's not just about raiding. Casuals really aren't the type of people that like to do the same 2+ hour dungeon over and over again just so they can do the same dungeon over and over again but this time REALLY HARD. TBC is not exactly a casual friendly expansion.

[Sancus]

Seriously whoever was in charge of itemization needs to get canned.

People have been saying this for practically the whole life of WoW and yet they continue with the retardation, it's hilarious, and I'm pretty sure they've changed SOME of the people who do itemization at least once - but that's what you get with restaurant-style hiring practices.

[Twobit Whore]

I love Karazhan, and High King has always been fun. New Gruul is a good step as well, Magtheridon still seems out of whack, but we haven't put any serious time on it since the hotfix. It could be better than I realize.

The lockout timer on Karazhan is just stupid. It needs to be 3.5 days. HKM, Gruul and Mag need to drop 2 t4 set pieces. This would help people gear up a little better for SSC. Of course, then you have the gear itself, which is nothing but minor upgrades, sidegrades or just flat out worse than blue drops and crafted epics that can be gotten solo (minus the primal nether which can come from normal 5 mans).

Fix trash respawn rates in Kara, so people get more time on the bosses and less on reclears, and the shorter lockout time isn't as big of a deal to really slow casual guilds. Fix melee unfriendly fights (cleave, short range AEs/auras that get spammed - not prince, nova is fine) to be a little more friendly. It's cool to have some random mobs immune or heavily mitigate the damage, but having them 1-2 shot people standing at any angle unless you spam heal them is just asinine.

Right now the decisions made to bridge the raider/casual gap may be doing so, but in doing so you are introducing a lot more people to the problems that raiders went through in MC 1.0. Raiding for epic sets that were sidegrades to DM/UBRS/t0 blues. Once the novelty wears off, it becomes a tedious chore.

[Welwood]

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