TBC Level 70 Instances

[ex-genj]

Well I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. The "death" debuff disappears when you kill the mob, maybe you should try having your healers nuke when it appears so that it doesn't wipe you? We figured out this difficult to handle ability the first time it appeared and never wiped to it. I can't think of any bugs in arcatraz at all. So I guess I and the other people responding to you are just FOS and don't find these instances hard even without ideal groups? ugh.

I realize you're trying to stick up for the "average" puggie 5 mans out there, but its pretty clear the direction of wow in tbc is to get away from the sleepingwalking-through-ubrs-with-afk-puggers type stuff. And trust me, people will still be pugging shadow lab just fine in 2 months when they gear up and become experienced with it.

[Tirinal]

Originally Posted by Shodai

As a quick aside...I really hope Blizzard doesn't tinker with the difficulty of the starter 5 man's, as it creates a nice "Planes of Power-esque" divide that separates the quick thinkers from the knuckle draggers...which is the way the game was envisioned.

I'm not going to continue the main debate, since I can see where it's going. I just wanted to mention that this is not the way the game way envisioned. Broad access to content, minimal divide, gold stars for participation. I don't know if they have a new philosophy for heroics, but the above is why lvl 70 starter instances will be tuned down eventually (though, as other have mentioned, they're very doable right now).

[benbadman]

"
You mean immolation aura on the Astromages that die in about 9 seconds....? Hardly that lethal. "


LOL if people die to this. Use your mandatory priest to dispel it, or have your shaman purge it. Have your mage spell steal it. Wow that was a tough mob ability to overcome!

Alot of the OP's problems would be fixed with a good hunter. Those 2 guardian/robot pulls in Arcatraz got u down? .. guess what you can ice trap them.

PS- Enhancement shaman are supposed to be gimped retards. Give up your shield and high burst dps spell casting abilities for below average melee abilities to go with below average healing. Sure melee shaman are slightly better than the old wait for flurry & windfury procs. If you want to play like this, don't expect to be good or as effective as someone who is spec'd the best way and put good elemental gear together, which by the way you can easily do while leveling.

[Shodai]

Originally Posted by Tirinal

I'm not going to continue the main debate, since I can see where it's going. I just wanted to mention that this is not the way the game way envisioned. Broad access to content, minimal divide, gold stars for participation. I don't know if they have a new philosophy for heroics, but the above is why lvl 70 starter instances will be tuned down eventually (though, as other have mentioned, they're very doable right now).

Sure it was..You are absolutely correct that broad access to content was a goal, but difficulty levels have always played a significant role in the player divide, which, had to have been intended. Thus, there certainly is no reason why starter lvl 70 5'mans should be less difficult, as they are virtually the end-game for super-casuals.

As an aside...Heroic Mode dangles the carrot for the casuals and will keep them playing long after we have started Hyjal.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Shodai

I have a couple problems with your post, both of which I will address.

1. Your "holy trinity" group is not the perfect group make-up in TBC..not even close. While you should be able to do any level 70 non-heroic with it with zero excuses, get yourself a druid and hunter if you want efficiency. Try thinking out the box and getting some additional friends.

2. The typical "10th grader" rant you started out with was pretty miserable, and to be honest you sound like one. If your going to complain about wiping in these NON HEROIC instances then you better explain the game breaking bugs and or imbalances before you rant. I am not sure how to say this without sounding disrespectful, but you guys must not be as stellar as you think if your having such major difficulties. And your spat on the voidwalkers??

The fact of the matter is, 5 man TBC instances are balanced and cater to people who can think on their feet...and for this I am glad. Even with that said, they're not that hard..I'm baffled. I guess if people can't cut the mustard then too bad, so sorry.

As a quick aside...I really hope Blizzard doesn't tinker with the difficulty of the starter 5 man's, as it creates a nice "Planes of Power-esque" divide that separates the quick thinkers from the knuckle draggers...which is the way the game was envisioned.

Edit: This post brought me out of my several year lurk mode because, and I say this with due respect to the OP and several of the replies, I miss some of the elitest attitudes that kept this forum free of inexperienced players and their WoW General Forum-esque rants. Does the world really need another WoW General Chat forum?

A) I never said the group was a holy trinity, I said it was well balanced, and it is.

B) Have you fought the voidwalkers?

C) I shouldn't need to explain the bugs to anyone that has done the instances, because they'd have seen the bugs. You seem to think you have done all of the instances, yet seem to also require clarification the bugs. See Mech/Botanica? Okay.

D) Elitist indeed you are. Instantly thinking anyone that has a complaint is inferior to you and must not be a good player. Once again, for the fourth time, we have done every single level 70 instance and have done all of the TBC instances several levels before we were supposed to be doing them, before we could even get the quests. We have beaten everything first try (that's not saying we didn't wipe). But we beat everything firs try without respawns and having to start over.

E) I love "several year lurkers" who are only "server month registered" lurkers. It's like you are trying to validate yourself by saying you've been here for a while, but just made a first post now, while the registration date is neither now, or server years ago. Simply put, when you feel the need to validate yourself, don't.

F) I completely agree with the quick-thinking business. It makes things alot more fun, and enjoyed the quick thinking we had to do with the whirlwind boss and the charge boss, all 5 of us having no idea what the bosses did before going into them, and still beating them just fine (one wipe on charge boss, and one shaman dead on whirlwind boss).

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by benbadman

"


Alot of the OP's problems would be fixed with a good hunter. Those 2 guardian/robot pulls in Arcatraz got u down? .. guess what you can ice trap them.

This is one of the major problems. A hunter can do something about these easily. Can any other class? Immune sap, immune polymorph, immune banish, immune cheap shot, kidney shot. I suppose maybe a second healer can do something. But then again it's going to take you forever to kill the two bastards, and the healers will probably run OOM before they are dead, as the lightning damage is infinite. So the second healer needs to dps.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by kasey

i guess this game needs a big phat sign infront of every single instance with a step by step guide how to solve the zone otherwise you cant have detailed/half complicated mob abilities+ be mainstream :P

This attitude is not constructive whatsoever. Shadow Labyrinth has detailed and half complicated mob abilities, including on trash. (You kill a wandering mistress, you then know an assassin will spawn, and wil be coming soon, and will likely drop the priest very fast if you are not careful.) And the bosses also have complicated/detailed abilities. Yet it is a balanced dungeon, that doesn't require a very tight knit group and will be beaten and enjoyed with skill.

If you aren't going to be constructive and just post elitist idiotic shit like that, just don't post all, seriously, you are worthless. If you are going to be elitist, be constructive, don't be an elitist moron.

[benbadman]

Originally Posted by Shodai

I have a couple problems with your post, both of which I will address.

Edit: This post brought me out of my several year lurk mode because, and I say this with due respect to the OP and several of the replies, I miss some of the elitest attitudes that kept this forum free of inexperienced players and their WoW General Forum-esque rants. Does the world really need another WoW General Chat forum?

A-fucking-men. Why this guy didn't post this on the Wow.com Raid & Dungeon forums is beyond me. Personally I am trying to build up some karma, so I tried to be nicer to the OP than his ill-advised drovel warrants. This guy is a real credit to his race if he has actually cleared all the 5-man's with 3 gimps in the party. Bet this super-gamer guy could milk Cameron Diaz too.

PS- Different topic, but I'm too lazy to post there. Level 70 warriors are fucking fine. The lv70 pvp is more rock-paper-scissors. Make warlock fear more likely to break when damage is taken, stop DOT damage after the caster is dead, increase the cooldown on cloak of shadows a minute or two, and wa la you have a fun fantastic lv70 BG sexy time.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by benbadman

A-fucking-men. Why this guy didn't post this on the Wow.com Raid & Dungeon forums is beyond me. Personally I am trying to build up some karma, so I tried to be nicer to the OP than his ill-advised drovel warrants. This guy is a real credit to his race if he has actually cleared all the 5-man's with 3 gimps in the party. Bet this super-gamer guy could milk Cameron Diaz too.

PS- Different topic, but I'm too lazy to post there. Level 70 warriors are fucking fine. The lv70 pvp is more rock-paper-scissors. Make warlock fear more likely to break when damage is taken, stop DOT damage after the caster is dead, increase the cooldown on cloak of shadows a minute or two, and wa la you have a fun fantastic lv70 BG sexy time.

Wow, there are no words.

[Shodai]

Originally Posted by Goliath

E) I love "several year lurkers" who are only "server month registered" lurkers. It's like you are trying to validate yourself by saying you've been here for a while, but just made a first post now, while the registration date is neither now, or server years ago. Simply put, when you feel the need to validate yourself, don't.

Brother, you need to look in the mirror...Your chain posting and incessant shotgun replies within this abortion of a thread scream "i need validation"...if not quite a bit more.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager my lurking has contributed more to this forum than all of your posts have since 2002...combined.

Sorry for the temporary derail.

[Taloo]

This thread pains me. Goliath you are retarded. I honestly can not fathom how someone does not figure out the voidwalkers. Do you not look at your moniter when you fight? This shit needs to be rickshawed.

Being unable to grasp simple gimmicks is no reason to cry about balance.

[Suineg]

Welcome to Suckville - Mayor: Goliath

[TheYanger]

I would simply challenge you to try and step outside of the box and observe encounters a bit more. Most of the 'complaints' lobbied in this thread seem pretty easily avoided by simply treating the mobs like raid trash rather than old school Stratholme trash that you just zerg down.
As has been mentioned, the voidwalkers are extremely easy, they heal while they're standing on the void spots...so move them.
The guardians, aside from the difficult double pull, are easy enough to just stun and run away from.
Harbinger Skyriss is the easiest part of that final boss encounter. Yeah he can lay out a lot of damage and charms/fears etc, but he dies incredibly fast, especially the duplicate (Takes like 3 hits tops).
Morass is a lot of fun, and scarcely requires a mage - The absolute easiest run at it I ever had was warrior rogue rogue paladin and Shadow priest taking care of adds. Yes a shadow priest. Shields were like 98% at the end, so he's an amazing 2% worse than the local mage at it. Another group that we had for Karazhan keys was paladin, warrior, 3x hunter. They did it on the first try with none of the hunters having been before, clearly it's a DPS-favored instance, but ANY dps will do.
Shattered Halls...I've done with rogue, rogue, priest, warrior, hunter, virtually no sustainable CC, those 6 pulls were still the only challenging part of the instance and a lot of fun. If there were tons of them it might get irritating, but there are...two?
Assassins...they sap the first person they run into, every time. Tell your priest not to run ahead.

I hope this post doesn't sound too condescending, that's not my intent, but it pains me to see someone doing the same content that I'm having a blast in, and being completely unable to get over the small details and enjoy themselves. Hopefully some of these tips will be eye-openers and you can just have fun killing stuff with the rest of us.

[LadyVex]

I'm not going to comment on some of the other things said in this thread because I think alot is based on perception but with that said...

Every few posts I see some kind of comment about how with "a hunter or lock you have more efficiency, or pal/feral dru/rogue/rogue/rogue is the best black morass group you can make!"

One of the bigger points raised by this thread was that if you don't have specific classes you are either vastly inefficient or incredibly screwed.

My normal group is a feral dru/paladin/shadow priest/disc priest(Me)/Warrior, and we find that on hard instances without reliable CC we wipe more often than we should.

As Goliath said, the devs did say everything should be able to be reliably done by whatever your group makeup, whatever your spec. Now, the instances can be done, but if you don't have certain classes you're going to end up slightly behind the curve, because you have too many rogues, not enough CC, not the right TYPE of CC, not the right type of dps etc.

I think things should be different based on group composition, but some of the things I've seen have been kinda retarded because we don't have someone who can sheep or frost trap. These guys are my best friends IRL, I gotta tell them, Hey you know how we all bought this game because we were sick of EQ bullshit and having to have a holy trinity and we all wanted to play together and WoW promised that? Guess what Lil Timmy, take a back seat to our new best friend, a mage.

Phooey.

PS - And I agree, fuck Black Morass. I'm not entirely sure what the hell is up there but that instance makes me want to kill baby bunnies. And they are so cute. =(

[Drauk]

Originally Posted by benbadman

PS- Enhancement shaman are supposed to be gimped retards. Give up your shield and high burst dps spell casting abilities for below average melee abilities to go with below average healing. Sure melee shaman are slightly better than the old wait for flurry & windfury procs. If you want to play like this, don't expect to be good or as effective as someone who is spec'd the best way and put good elemental gear together, which by the way you can easily do while leveling.

Actually enhance shamans are ridiculously powerful. One of our priests rerolled shamans, and now obliterating damage meters in every single instance run. No class has been able to touch his DPS. It's gonna be nerfed sooner or later, because it is too good.