Multiverse Armchair Development.

[Big W Powah!]

As some of you know, I've been working on my own lil MMO (whcih has been consuming even more of my time as of late), using the multiverse tools.


Well, I've manged to reach a point of conceptual class design, and I've decided to come to the forums to give the MMO community (you guys) a chance to have a little input as for what you would like to see. I will lay out a few class designs, and let anybody with real constructive critism critque, or even just somebody having something they want to see, but havent. This being said, they are all subject to removal/change, as is par for the course. This project is as of yet unnamed, etc....I am garage-building this, and pray to actually be able to finish this project.

I won't be using any actual names, simple references to let you know the type of class it is.

First, i bring you our clerical type.

This is basically the hand of god. Not quite the battle cleric that we've been brought recently though. They have strong heals, big heavy armor, a big mace (though, not as useful to them as a melee class), and strong DS's. Being the hand of god, god gets pissed if you hurt anybody that its hand is protecting, thus the powerful DS type spells. They also have a spell (currently) which forces the opponent to attack faster and harder, but removes the ability to cast/use special attacks. This should take advantage of their DS spells, as well as have use in fights where theres an effect you want to avoid. The haste/attack bonus last twice as long as the silence, however, to balance it out. Their healing style is very straight forward, and they receive fairly decent hp/ac buffs. The offensive abilities of this class are near null.

Next, is the class which is currently codenamed Wraith.

Unable to directly communicate with the world around him properly, the wraith has to communicate either through an "avatar" (more later) or directly with the spirit of an opponent/ally. This lends them to very powerful control spells, and "indirect direct damage (tm)" spells. They are your crowd control, and proper CC at that. Charms/Mezzes/Stuns. They also have the ability to "bond" with an avatar. This avatar can either be a charmed opponent (however, if a charmed mob is made your avatar, and it breaks charm, you WILL be hurting, as a broken avatar bond will leave you with a few moments vulnerability. You can sever a bond manually with a lesser penalty), or another player. Through these bonds, they can cast certain spells which aren't available to them without an avatar. These spells include what would be considered direct interaction. Such as root/dot/dd spells. The credit for these spells is split between the avatar and the wraith.. This can be a good and a bad thing.

and the third, the final for tonight, is a damage class. We'll call it Trapper, for the time being.

The trapper is a very powerful damage dealer, but needs to be in melee range. His melee alone is sub-par, but he is capable of creating various traps on the ground, which he can thusly knock an opponent into. Setting these traps is difficult, however, requiring very delicate touches and extreme concentration. This means that the trapper probably won't solo well, since a mob beating on him will make it impossible for him to properly set traps. a smart trapper just might be able to set a serious of traps (albeit, only able to have one out at a time) which will allow him an intitial advantage, however. In groups, the damage a trapper could put out wuill be a sight to behold. YOu won't be able to simply set a trap under a mob, I'm not entirely sure what we can do to get aruond that, but we'll figure something out.

Anyways, give feedback on these if you would please. Keep it civil, no flaming. I'm just trying to allow the players to help mold the world.

Disclaimer: We simply refers to my split personality. I'm basically building this alone for now, as I've stated before. This is all still in the concept phase, but I AM working as hard as possible to actually create this. Understand I am serious about this.

[Laerazi]

Your version of the cleric seems pretty standard; aside from the lore aspect about how they're the hand of god, it sounds as though it's going to play like every other cleric out there (in addition to being inside some kind of holy trinity).

Wraith, tbh how you described it is a bit confusing and I don't really want to take the time to understand it, honestly, but it sounds interesting. That said, I would consider a "wraith" more as a being or type of creature than an actual class that someone trains to become. IE wraith would be a form of a class, but not the class itself.

The "trapper" sounds like a strange class; having someone setting traps all throughout combat while trying to push a mob into them (or something to that effect), doesn't sound like a very epic class. Sounds kind of like a poor man's Hunter (WoW).

TBH, I'd rather see some interesting/new sci-fi or other-fantasy-world classes, instead of one's we've seen over and over with slight variations or abilities. Of course, you can't go too far out of the realm of comfort, to a place where people have no idea what's going on (although a new world where everything is completely foreign would be interesting).

If you plan on creating another fantasy MMO with the same standard elements that every other MMO has introduced (or slight variations thereof), I suggest you quit now and never look back. I think the only chance someone has, with no funding, starting as a garage game (if there even is any chance) is to make a game that hasn't been made before and that focuses on fun, not copying everything else.

[Dinthug]

Those are some of the most innovative thoughts I've ever seen. Blizzard, hire this man!

[ashatumar]

You're trying to give each class some form of meaning. Their strengths are as much strengths as they are weaknesses from what I can tell. There's as many epic combos as there are epic blunders (when mixing classes) so it takes an understanding of one's class as much as it does everyone else's.

If I'm on the money, that sounds pretty cool and it really seems to be striving in the direction of adding meaning to these types of games rather than simply hack n slash, tank and spank.

[leane]

These are all ideas from DAOC...

Wraith is a DAOC Necromancer, useless on his own until he summons a minion then he becomes incorperal and all spells and actions are done with the minion. If your minion died or you went out of range you would return to normal with a fraction of your health.

Trapper is like the DAOC plant class with all the mushrooms that shot things for you.

a Cleric is a cleric... Nothing new, just lore.

[Big W Powah!]

Wraith is simply a codename....I haven't had the time to come up with a class name for it yet.

Trapper was blatantly stolen from WoW hunter traps, yes, I'll admit that. I had the idea to expand on it, and I thank you for your feedback. It seems its the least popular so far.

And yeah, the cleric falls into the healer deathtrap. I've been attempting to come up with methods to remove it from the classic healer issues, and make it more innovative, but without blatantly ripping VG off I've been having some troubles.

Basically, heal wise I can't see too much changing, and its become my theory that giving healers more fun flavor and secondary roles (powerful DS's, etc) is a good idea.

To explain the wraith a bit better though, he is unable to directly communicate with the physical world due to the magics that he pratices. These magics lend him very powerful control over the spiritual world. This is where the mezzes/stuns/charms come in. He is also able to create a strong spirit bond with a character or charmed mob, and this bonded creature becomes his avatar, through which he can interact with the physical world some. This makes some of his more powerful spiritual spells uncastable, but opens up some spells which require a physical contact with the world. Severing this bond makes the wraith vulnerable.

There is a physical form of the wraith, which can be damaged, however. This is the main reason I am having trouble coming up with a name for it. Not a ghost but not really a physical being either.

[Big W Powah!]

Originally Posted by leane

These are all ideas from DAOC...

Wraith is a DAOC Necromancer, useless on his own until he summons a minion then he becomes incorperal and all spells and actions are done with the minion. If your minion died or you went out of range you would return to normal with a fraction of your health.

Trapper is like the DAOC plant class with all the mushrooms that shot things for you.

a Cleric is a cleric... Nothing new, just lore.

to clarify: I've never played DAoC I'll admit a bit of similarity between the plant class and trapper (unintended)

As far as the DAoC necro, the way you describe it the only real similarity is acting through another being, as the wraith is far from useless on his own, just some things can't be done on his own.

[leane]

Only difference you have is switching the corperal and incorperal forms, not so much a new idea but a change to an existing idea.

Balance would be a pain, people would have a wraith two-boxed in ghost form to mezz/stunn and basically be invulnerable. You would need a compelling reason to force the wraith to be vulnerable.

[Turzem]

Were I making an MMO, I would learn from the mistakes of the past and remove the concept of direct in-combat healing from the game completely.

[Faille]

There's a similar project in the works for the uberguilds network. Expect some sort of announcement in the near future.

Good luck to you project Big W Powah.
I would recommend anyone interested in joining in to check out multiverse and get a look at the tools, and stuff.

[Rhaze]

the problem with swords and sorcery is that it has been beaten severly into the ground.

the constant lack of getting it right has caused a lot of people to cry for a fantasy or sci-fi MMORPG.

Where's the skill based games? (uo)

[Big W Powah!]

Originally Posted by leane

Only difference you have is switching the corperal and incorperal forms, not so much a new idea but a change to an existing idea.

Balance would be a pain, people would have a wraith two-boxed in ghost form to mezz/stunn and basically be invulnerable. You would need a compelling reason to force the wraith to be vulnerable.

Its never truely incorporeal, never truely corporeal. Even unbonded the wraith is never invulnerable. There is a physical form, and their life is VERY tied to this. Their magics simply weaken this form to the point of near uselessness. A wraith could in theory swing a weapon to kill a mob, at a very reduced effectiveness however...Thus the problems in naming it.

Originally Posted by Turzem

Were I making an MMO, I would learn from the mistakes of the past and remove the concept of direct in-combat healing from the game completely.

Not much of an option, from a coding perspective. Remove ALL forms of in combat healing, and remove a large freedom in creating raid content. That being said, these are only 3 conceptual classes out of probably 20-30 concepts I've had. If people wish, I will post some more.

Originally Posted by Faille

There's a similar project in the works for the uberguilds network. Expect some sort of announcement in the near future.

Good luck to you project Big W Powah.
I would recommend anyone interested in joining in to check out multiverse and get a look at the tools, and stuff.

Thank you. I assume this post is essencially okaying the conceptual discussion of this current game on these boards then? Didn't even enter my mind this might be an issue, heh, and I apologize for not getting the okay through proper channels. Feel free to delete if you'd not wish for me to continue disucssion. I request a PM notification if thats the case, however.

Originally Posted by Rhaze

the problem with swords and sorcery is that it has been beaten severly into the ground.

the constant lack of getting it right has caused a lot of people to cry for a fantasy or sci-fi MMORPG.

Where's the skill based games? (uo)

I looked and skill based games, and honestly have some concepts to fit my current class types into a skill-set system. The issue with that is you have gimped builds and have to allow re-specs everytime you make a major change to a specific skillset or skill. A lot of builds are going to center around augmenting a specific skill, so simply refunding points in a specific skillset upon major change isn't even enough. I'm currently working on a hybrid class/skill system, but thats for another time. Its not entirely set in stone as of yet.

As for a sci-fi MMO? I'm not a fan ot Sci-fi. But given my budget I could honestly be profitable at anything above server costs, which if I am reading what Multiverse has said correctly--I thought they paid atleast a portion of that?

[Camerous]

Hopefully the team will follow through with their projected release of Beta2 and we'll get it some time in Feb until then I am not even starting to work on my world yet.

I hope you don't mind discussions of other's realms/worlds H&C. If you do let me know and I iwll delete the rest of my post.

As for Skill system verses lvl... I am also going to do a combo like system. I think UO's system was great in many ways but was hard to design raids for because you never knew what types of people were gonna show up. Since everyone could be a combination of everything there was no real way to fine tune encounters. You just had to make them so hard that you had to basically just zerg the damn objectives. That was my only complaint the years I ran my own server.

Lvling systems on the other hand are easy to design for but give no real variety to the individual. You are either a rog or you are not. My system will have a set of skills that you use after you pick your class that will determin what kind of character you are in that class. In example if you choose the SubClass Fighter and you choose to raise your defense + skills and your shielding skill then you become a Knight. If you raise your damage + and avoidance you become a monk. Or your damage and armor a warrior and so on.

There will be no "healing" class in my world. Every subclass/class combo will have the ability to heal some damage as well as special classes who can up Hp and armor as well as raise avoidance. This way no one will have to be stuck playing a class that just isn't that much fun.
Another thing with my game is there will be no damn rat/bat/snake killing. I think starting out having to deal with the city's rodent population at the beginning of every game is so tired hehe.

I also really like how WoW starts you out in the "country" and not at a major city so I will be incoperating that as well. I am also going to go the instancing route, even though I hate it as a player, because that will make it so much easier to tune encounters and do special events than a wide open world.

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Big W Powah!

Thank you. I assume this post is essencially okaying the conceptual discussion of this current game on these boards then? Didn't even enter my mind this might be an issue, heh, and I apologize for not getting the okay through proper channels. Feel free to delete if you'd not wish for me to continue disucssion. I request a PM notification if thats the case, however.

No feel free to keep discussing it, this board is for all MMOs, big and small, after all.

The project I'm trying to get off the ground is a more open source, learning type project that people can contribute to that is more focused on implementing simple designs rather then breaking new ground.

[Believe]

Asheron's call 2 had a very cool Level-Skill/Class system. It also is an example of how you can unlearn skills.

I would love to see it replicated in a future MMORPG.

Anyways, I would honestly love to see a Sci-Fi/Fantasy game. Like a MMORPS (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Shooter). Weapons and such are controlled/enhanced by magic, etc.