Your paladin spec

gavinrad · 01-27-2007, 05:45 AM

Being one of the first batch of 60s on Blackhand, I hadn't ground xp in ages. So, I dumped my talent points for crusader strike and retrinubbed it up for 3 levels. Then I started thinking about how I ground out 50-56 at super-speed in the plaguelands with holy shield and consecration, and that protection looked even better now, so I respecced to something like 23 Holy 32 Protection (im 63).

Holy shit. With 5 pieces of judgement and random other gear, with the footman's longsword from honor hold's quartermaster, I actually kill faster against more targets at once, with less downtime. Typically, I round up a small group, judge wisdom, cast the seal again, then wear the fuckers down with Blessing of Sanctuary, Retribution Aura, Holy Shield, and Consecration. the next step is deciding whether I want 15 stamina or a shield spike on my drillborer disk. I can swap to concentration aura for uninterruptible heals even when 4+ mobs are beating on me.

I went back and killed Blacktalon shortly after respeccing this way, and wore her down for about 4-5 minutes before the group that came up behind me got bored of waiting and helped me out.

As I said in guildchat last night, Beware me! For I am a paladin, and my foes will die of old age before I falter!

So what is everyone else speccing for grinding their pally and why.

Xequecal · 01-27-2007, 05:55 AM

I'd just like to add: Ret fucking sucks now for pretty much everything except solo PvP. Seal of Righteousness with the new coefficient just puts Command to shame in the DPS department. It can't crit, but it also doesn't get dodged/blocked/parried/misses. I'm 47/14/0 now at 70 and have no plans to change. I was full Holy for leveling up too, I still think that's the best way to go. You will HATE Protection spec when you get into Netherstorm. Almost everything is a caster that Reckoning/Holy Shield is just awful against.

Saban · 01-27-2007, 06:21 AM

I'm ret right now, but im very close to 70 then im going 44/17/0, healbitch imo.

Antarius · 01-27-2007, 07:42 AM

I went ret up till 37, and then switched to Prot, I am just about to ding 47 now.

The thorium shield spike was definatly worth the 5gp I paid for it, it's a decent portion of my total dps while I'm tanking. Not sure how hard it would be to get a Khorium shield spike, but I imagine it'd be worth it for anyone leveling up a paladin for sure. Something else I was able to pick up that helps a bit is the electromagnetic gigiflux capacitor hat from Gnomeregan, it adds a small 5 point damage shield for 10 out of the 30 minutes that I'm grinding, that small amount adds up when you're fighting 5+ mobs at once, especially for such a low level item.

I am currently placing points in Holy (after getting 5/5 1 hand spec and 5/5 reckoning there isn't much reason to go further into prot for leveling), but I plan on respeccing again at 56 to enjoy the additional benefit improved retribution aura adds, while still having the relatively important for 2-3 mob pulls and instance tanking Holy Shield. After getting improved ret aura I'll "finish up" my protection tree by working towards Avengers Shield, the thing I've hated most about my paladin after playing a warlock was absolutetly zero way of stopping or slowing someone who is running from me

Makata · 01-27-2007, 09:38 AM

I tried the porcupine thing. Granted I didn't give it much time but for leveling up it stunk. Maybe I just couldn't find a good spot but I just couldn't seem to make it worth it. I'd have to pull a fairly easy pack or get lucky with constant S/JoL procs to stay alive long enough not to start having to try channeling a heal (during which time you can't block = almost 0 dps). I certainly don't have the experience to say it's a bad spec and if you got it to work then grats, but it sure as hell didn't work for me. I went to 10/8/28 (just hit 56 last night) and I like it. I fully intent to spec to healbitch soon but for right now, going middle-deep into ret looks good, though I cannot possibly see going beyond sanctified judgement. The deep ret talents all look like utter trash.

Zbkuk · 01-27-2007, 09:42 AM

You won't see a felsteel shield spike for quite a while - you have to be exalted thrallmar to buy the recipie, then you have to have 360 blacksmithing to make it, which isn't exactly trivial. Then the mats are 4 felsteel bars (8 eternium bars needed for this, you can get eternium from any node but they take a while), 4 primal fires, 4 primal earths. If there's an even higher shield spike I haven't seen it, and since khorium is a goddamn pain in the ass I wouldn't even want to think about making a khorium shield spike when you can use khorium for so many more things.

gavinrad · 01-27-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makata

I tried the porcupine thing. Granted I didn't give it much time but for leveling up it stunk. Maybe I just couldn't find a good spot but I just couldn't seem to make it worth it. I'd have to pull a fairly easy pack or get lucky with constant S/JoL procs to stay alive long enough not to start having to try channeling a heal (during which time you can't block = almost 0 dps). I certainly don't have the experience to say it's a bad spec and if you got it to work then grats, but it sure as hell didn't work for me. I went to 10/8/28 (just hit 56 last night) and I like it. I fully intent to spec to healbitch soon but for right now, going middle-deep into ret looks good, though I cannot possibly see going beyond sanctified judgement. The deep ret talents all look like utter trash.

As much as I hate you Makata, here's some advice. Protection grinding doesn't work without spiritual focus. so until you are at least level 50, you can't really do it. at level 50, you have Holy Shield and Spiritual focus, and you can swap to concentration aura for uninterruptible heals.

You shouldn't be judging Light, you should be judging Wisdom.

Makata · 01-27-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavinrad

As much as I hate you Makata, here's some advice. Protection grinding doesn't work without spiritual focus. so until you are at least level 50, you can't really do it. at level 50, you have Holy Shield and Spiritual focus, and you can swap to concentration aura for uninterruptible heals.

You shouldn't be judging Light, you should be judging Wisdom.

Spiritual Focus doesn't help. I had it .. every spec I do will have 10 in holy at least .. but if you are channeling a heal against 4+ mobs, that 2.5s will turn into at least 4-5 even with focus. You can switch to conc first but then its a full 4.0 for the heal including GCD and 5.5 once you go back to Ret. That's what Light is for. You simply cannot afford to spend any serious length of time channeling or you won't be blocking and blocking is your greatest source of damage unless you have alot of +dmg and use a low rank cons.

I suppose you could judge wisdom and spam max consecrate but it seems kind of a waste and you could still run into health issues. Like I said, i don't pretend to be an expert and the system DOES work, but it can be really nerve wracking managing 100 things at once and every single caster / shooter really mucks up your game. I tried several spots, Sorrow Hill, the elemental cave in northern felwood, and a couple other spots based off of guides I found but none seemed to be so great as to be worth it. I think that if you're a BWL+ pally coming into the expansion with good gears, it can be worth it but my 3k hp 2.2k mana 0 +dmg greens and blues gimp ass simply couldn't make it worth it.

Tirinal · 01-27-2007, 11:20 AM

Unless they changed it, you can switch auras during global cd or the cast time of other spells. I used to swich to conc aura all the time during some other ability so it didn't apply a time delay to my heals.

Hardcore Cracka · 01-27-2007, 11:22 AM

Makata, Spiritual Focus and Concentration Aura stack, giving you 2.5s heals every single time.

Noob.

Makata · 01-27-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirinal

Unless they changed it, you can switch auras during global cd or the cast time of other spells. I used to swich to conc aura all the time during some other ability so it didn't apply a time delay to my heals.

No to both, I just tested them. Cast a seal and during GCD I couldn't switch auras. Also I begun casting HL and it wouldn't let me switch auras while channeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardcore Cracka

Makata, Spiritual Focus and Concentration Aura stack, giving you 2.5s heals every single time.

No shit sherlock; that's why I said 4.0 INCLUDING THE GCD. You gotta switch to conc, cast, then switch back to ret. AE'ing with conc up I suppose is possible but seems silly .. just judge light.

gavinrad · 01-27-2007, 04:44 PM

you just anticipate more, or leave concentration up. Retribution is not that critical to my damage.

Deris · 01-27-2007, 05:32 PM

Right now my Paladin is only 46 (work owned :/).. Ret spec, but I *plan* on going Shockadin after 62 or 63 (whenever I can acquire a modicum of +damage gear) and run instances/solo mobs like that. I *hear* it works well, but have no real anecdotal evidence to back this up - any input?

Antarius · 01-27-2007, 05:54 PM

Every piece of gear I have is +sta +str or +str +def, I have an epic shield for the significantly higher block and armor value with a thorium spike on it.

Against 5-6 mobs at once, you shouldn't even need to heal at all your health, after armor mitigation and blessing of sanctuary, should be able to carry you through no problems at all. In the rare case I need to heal, it's usually after reckoning procs have allowed me to single dps down at least 2 of the 5-6.

Maybe it's just a gear problem? At level 46 I have a block value of 54, 5392 Armor, and 252 Defense, 2256 unbuffed hitpoints.

Zinke · 01-27-2007, 07:52 PM

Shield spike damage triggers SoL, no?

Saw a video of a paladin AE farming 4-5 mobs at once, health barely dropped due to a bunch of SoL procs. Mana/health both very high after all mobs dead. Took a little bit to kill all the mobs, but WAY faster then doing them single. I don't know paladin abilities that well, but iirc, the basics were consecration, shield blocking with a shield spike, and certain prot talents (redoubt, shield spec, imp righteous fury, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield)
so you are doing lots of damage by blocking.

He'd judge SoL when it was about to run out, then recast. If things get real bad, can always bubble/heal, and LoH too.

Build isn't viable until 35+, but seems kind of fun. If I level up a pally alt next, gonna try it out.

01-27-2007, 05:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
Xequecal Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,294 -6 Internets	I'd just like to add: Ret fucking sucks now for pretty much everything except solo PvP. Seal of Righteousness with the new coefficient just puts Command to shame in the DPS department. It can't crit, but it also doesn't get dodged/blocked/parried/misses. I'm 47/14/0 now at 70 and have no plans to change. I was full Holy for leveling up too, I still think that's the best way to go. You will HATE Protection spec when you get into Netherstorm. Almost everything is a caster that Reckoning/Holy Shield is just awful against. __________________ "I imagine that at this point, Al Gore rues the day he invented the electoral college."

01-27-2007, 06:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
Saban Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,980 +15 Internets	I'm ret right now, but im very close to 70 then im going 44/17/0, healbitch imo. __________________ ] Saban - Paladin, Dark Iron Keelhaul - Everquest, FV Server.

01-27-2007, 09:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
Makata Johnny Fucking Headshot Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,352 -147 Internets	I tried the porcupine thing. Granted I didn't give it much time but for leveling up it stunk. Maybe I just couldn't find a good spot but I just couldn't seem to make it worth it. I'd have to pull a fairly easy pack or get lucky with constant S/JoL procs to stay alive long enough not to start having to try channeling a heal (during which time you can't block = almost 0 dps). I certainly don't have the experience to say it's a bad spec and if you got it to work then grats, but it sure as hell didn't work for me. I went to 10/8/28 (just hit 56 last night) and I like it. I fully intent to spec to healbitch soon but for right now, going middle-deep into ret looks good, though I cannot possibly see going beyond sanctified judgement. The deep ret talents all look like utter trash. __________________ BTW whichever of you mods removed the banner sig, I never made it nor put it there in the first place and if anything just gives me a reason to make a new one bigger and more annoying.

01-27-2007, 11:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
Hardcore Cracka Majestik Moose Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,539	Makata, Spiritual Focus and Concentration Aura stack, giving you 2.5s heals every single time. Noob. __________________

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01-27-2007, 07:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
Antarius Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 972 +0 Internets	I went ret up till 37, and then switched to Prot, I am just about to ding 47 now. The thorium shield spike was definatly worth the 5gp I paid for it, it's a decent portion of my total dps while I'm tanking. Not sure how hard it would be to get a Khorium shield spike, but I imagine it'd be worth it for anyone leveling up a paladin for sure. Something else I was able to pick up that helps a bit is the electromagnetic gigiflux capacitor hat from Gnomeregan, it adds a small 5 point damage shield for 10 out of the 30 minutes that I'm grinding, that small amount adds up when you're fighting 5+ mobs at once, especially for such a low level item. I am currently placing points in Holy (after getting 5/5 1 hand spec and 5/5 reckoning there isn't much reason to go further into prot for leveling), but I plan on respeccing again at 56 to enjoy the additional benefit improved retribution aura adds, while still having the relatively important for 2-3 mob pulls and instance tanking Holy Shield. After getting improved ret aura I'll "finish up" my protection tree by working towards Avengers Shield, the thing I've hated most about my paladin after playing a warlock was absolutetly zero way of stopping or slowing someone who is running from me

01-27-2007, 09:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
Zbkuk Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 165 +0 Internets	You won't see a felsteel shield spike for quite a while - you have to be exalted thrallmar to buy the recipie, then you have to have 360 blacksmithing to make it, which isn't exactly trivial. Then the mats are 4 felsteel bars (8 eternium bars needed for this, you can get eternium from any node but they take a while), 4 primal fires, 4 primal earths. If there's an even higher shield spike I haven't seen it, and since khorium is a goddamn pain in the ass I wouldn't even want to think about making a khorium shield spike when you can use khorium for so many more things.

01-27-2007, 11:20 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tirinal Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 721 +0 Internets	Unless they changed it, you can switch auras during global cd or the cast time of other spells. I used to swich to conc aura all the time during some other ability so it didn't apply a time delay to my heals.

01-27-2007, 05:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
Deris Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,628 -7 Internets	Right now my Paladin is only 46 (work owned :/).. Ret spec, but I plan on going Shockadin after 62 or 63 (whenever I can acquire a modicum of +damage gear) and run instances/solo mobs like that. I hear it works well, but have no real anecdotal evidence to back this up - any input?

01-27-2007, 05:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
Antarius Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 972 +0 Internets	Every piece of gear I have is +sta +str or +str +def, I have an epic shield for the significantly higher block and armor value with a thorium spike on it. Against 5-6 mobs at once, you shouldn't even need to heal at all your health, after armor mitigation and blessing of sanctuary, should be able to carry you through no problems at all. In the rare case I need to heal, it's usually after reckoning procs have allowed me to single dps down at least 2 of the 5-6. Maybe it's just a gear problem? At level 46 I have a block value of 54, 5392 Armor, and 252 Defense, 2256 unbuffed hitpoints.

01-27-2007, 07:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
Zinke I think I'm drunk enough to drive you home. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: What is, is. Posts: 2,458 +0 Internets	Shield spike damage triggers SoL, no? Saw a video of a paladin AE farming 4-5 mobs at once, health barely dropped due to a bunch of SoL procs. Mana/health both very high after all mobs dead. Took a little bit to kill all the mobs, but WAY faster then doing them single. I don't know paladin abilities that well, but iirc, the basics were consecration, shield blocking with a shield spike, and certain prot talents (redoubt, shield spec, imp righteous fury, blessing of sanctuary, holy shield) so you are doing lots of damage by blocking. He'd judge SoL when it was about to run out, then recast. If things get real bad, can always bubble/heal, and LoH too. Build isn't viable until 35+, but seems kind of fun. If I level up a pally alt next, gonna try it out.