Fixing wow's pvp system

[ex-genj]

I'm sure this thread will get gayed but thought I'd throw some stuff out here.

First off there has to be a return to giving the losers some honor. Right now a pug in ab/wsg who is against a premade has no reason to be there. They will eventually get one token, which is virtually useless for everyone as they are not hard to get. Bring the 3 token turn in for honor back, make it like 200 honor.

Make a 2nd premade queue. This really wouldn't be that hard. What I was thinking was something like when a premade with more than 5 people hits join as group, they are put into the premade queue for a maximum of 3 minutes, and also "invisibly" put in the pug queue as if they all joined solo. If another premade becomes available they will join it, if not after 3 minutes everyone will have the option of taking their place in the pug queue - and not in the same BG i.e. the premade is broken. Once this is put in place effectively there won't be all of the premade stomping pug problems and queue hopping.

Make additional maps for all 4 bgs. You don't even have to think up new bgs, just use the same ones and make new maps. You could make a water map, a fire one, one very dark or foggy, hell you could even make a floating one with islands that requires (or gives you temp) flying mounts. Whatever, it would be very easy to do and would bring some much needed variety to the same old maps that we've all been playing for years.

[Deris]

Originally Posted by ex-genj

Make a 2nd premade queue. This really wouldn't be that hard. What I was thinking was something like when a premade with more than 5 people hits join as group, they are put into the premade queue for a maximum of 3 minutes, and also "invisibly" put in the pug queue as if they all joined solo. If another premade becomes available they will join it, if not after 3 minutes everyone will have the option of taking their place in the pug queue - and not in the same BG i.e. the premade is broken. Once this is put in place effectively there won't be all of the premade stomping pug problems and queue hopping.

Sure would be nice, but uh the *real* honor farmers would queue solo at the same time as their buddies.

[Welwood]

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[Lambourne]

It definitely needs fixing. I did PUG wsg today and out of a dozen matches all but one was against a premade, and the pug vs pug was the only match where we managed to cap any flags at all. Most games had a few players that just sat at graveyard for the whole match. Although I don't like it, I can see how getting curbstomped game after game is very discouraging and no fun at all.
A seperate queue for teams and pugs is badly needed. I think the 3 from one server limit is a good idea.

It'd also be nice to see a 'join first new game' option, it kind of sucks to wait 20 minutes for AB and then get thrown into a game where the enemy is already at 1900+ resources.

AV is inherently a mix of PvP and PvE so I don't think honor rewards for NPCs/bunkers should be removed; I would like to see the start locations randomized though.

The WSG hax need fixing. Apart from the rooftop cheats, I was in a game where 2 horde somehow ported themselves behind the alliance base (before the gate even opened) and just stood there soaking up HKs for the whole match.

[Algol Devilstar]

Originally Posted by Welwood

I'm totally against giving losers honor at all. All this does is create a new breed of afkbots who die once, then refuse to ress at the gy while they wait for the loss and the free honor/token. This ruins the game for real players who queue up solo or in small groups because even if their bg is filled with 15 or 10 players, you will still get the 1+ morons who wanna afk the entire time and sponge up honor. This then robs the actual players of those afkbots spots and they wind up fighting outnumbered with no chance of being saved by players joining the game to help.

Personally I think that the losers of AV should get no honor as well. I'm tired of seeing morons just trying to kill npc's then lose quickly just so they can get their complimentary honor and free token. If you don't win, you shouldn't get a prize, period, end of story.

I am in favor of there being multiple queue's for different types of players. Premade groups should be forced to play other premade groups. If you hit "join as a group" you get put into a different queue than someone who single queue's.

To alleviate the whole "ZOMG 1-2-3 QUEUE FAST LOLZ" that will naturally occur, make it so that at no point will more than 3 players from the same server be in the same wsg or 4 players from the same server able to be in the same AB at a time if they've solo queued. Make the number 10 for AV if you're simply too lazy to put the REAL fixes into that game to make it something other than the pve fest it currently is.

Make players worth more honor outside of bgs too, I love freerange pvp.

Fuck no and fuck you for even thinking losers shouldnt get something.

[SalaciousTunare]

Originally Posted by ex-genj

make it like 200 honor.

rofl right.

Try 3 tokens = 30 honor, then you're on the right track.

[rinthea]

this is easy

BG winner get reward
BG loser get no reward

reward the losing group, for steps that lead to a victory (and vice versa, for steps that prevent an opposition victory). i.e flag captures, returning flag, pvp kills, heals, etc, etc

Have it so the loser can range from ~25% to ~80% of winners reward.
Reward groups per time invested in the BG. Have an optmal time where diminishing returns result above it.

[rinthea]

oops double post :[

[Ravensign]

Bonus honor should come from both winning AND/OR activity.

If you AFK and Win, you get shit, if you contribute, but your side loses you should get more than if you lost and did less.

The order should be:

Winners that contribute
Winners that contribute some, but not so much
Losers that contribute
Losers that contribute some, but not so much
Winners and Losers that don't contribute at all

If contribution was tied to bonus honor, then maybe people would still try, and would not fear stomps so bad. This would also make AFK completely devoid of value.

I agree with the sentiment of not rewarding losers in general, but, because it's currently a black/white thing, there is no impetus to try at all in situations where a PuG meets a Premade. When presented with an unbeatable foe, maybe its appropriate to entice people to try.

[Pilsbane]

Originally Posted by Ravensign

Honor should come from both winning AND/OR activity.

If you AFK and Win, you get shit, if you contribute, but your side loses you should get more than if you lost and did less.

The order should be:

Winners that contribute
Winners that contribute some, but not so much
Losers that contribute
Losers that contribute some, but not so much
Winners and Losers that don't contribute at all

If contribution was tied to bonus honor, then maybe people would still try, and would not fear stomps so bad. This would also make AFK completely devoid of value. Maybe, and hey, maybe not, people would accidentally string together enough good play to make it worth something even in defeat.

The only problem with this is the poor son of a bitch that gets "guard stables" duty.

[Ravensign]

I know its kludgey but maybe just standing near a node close enough would earn your credit. Somewhere unsafe, and not just in your base or tunnel or cave, and not waiting to rez.

PS. I don't have all the answers, I am just throwing shit out there, because obviously WoW PvP needs some kinda lovin'.

[CXB]

You shouldn't get bonus anything for losing, but they should definitely fix the premade vs. PUG bullshit. This is something we needed months ago, not something to be put off until after TBC is released. They should add a WSG/AB/EotS ladder when they add arena ladders too. There doesn't need to be gear rewards -- it could just be for prestige if need be.

"Lose quickly" needs to never be the rewarding option, and that was clearly what was happening for Horde in AV weekend. You spend 2 hours trying and finally win an AV or do shit for 20 minutes and get way better honor.

I agree on different maps and have been saying it forever. It doesn't seem like it would be a huge amount of work and the variety would be very welcome, especially if there were some minor strategic changes to each map.

[Ravensign]

I wonder what their "matching system" entails? Someone said it was going to be gear based, but that seems weird.

Would making it tie in to your personal win/loss % over the last say,month, work?

How do you decide that two Pug's or two premades are "matched" right? Would an average win/loss % for the BG in question make sense at all?

[Torrid]

Rewarding failure was the biggest mistake Blizzard ever made in their PvP design, period. I hate losing to a preform in a PuG. I *HATE* seeing people AFK for honor or losing on purpose.

Obviously pugs vs. preforms need to be addressed. Equipment item levels need to be taken into account BADLY as well. I'm sure there are ways to get around the "queue up at the same time to get the same instance" trick to allow for two different queues. (pug and preform) Like, refuse to put more than X number of people of the same server into any one game. Or randomly add some time to somebody's queue time when they queue up (like 0-30 seconds)

[Makata]

Losers shouldn't get any honor just for being in the BG. Fuck that. Rewards are for WINNERS. Losing your way to HWL items is a crock of shit and you know it. This should not be a "put your time in and get your shit" game it should be a "put your time in, SUCCEED, and get your shit."

Here's my solution: make honor/day similar to arena. No minimum but if you play and win 1 game (1-0) you get X honor. If you play and win 2 games (2-0) you get a little over 2X. And so on. Losses would only very slightly affect you negatively so that 1-0 and 2-5 might award the same or so. But just because you have alot of time to sit AFK at the zone in doesn't mean you deserve shit. Furthermore, to even get credit for a kill you'd have to meet some set of requirements (that wouldn't unfairly hurt defenders). Like mark the inside of the playing field, where you stand a reasonable chance of actually participating in pvp as a certain playing zone and you have to spend the majority of the time in that area. Maybe even make it more specific and detailed and have detection mechanisms to make sure you're moving. You could even give the ability to be voted out by a large majority (7/10 in WSG, 11/15 in AB/EotS and at least 20 in AB).

Frankly, if you end your day 1-10 or some such, I don't think you deserve dick. Maybe some tokens, or honor than can only be spent on rank 10 and below shit, but fuck you in your ear if you want to encourage losing your way to HWL.