Fixing wow's pvp system

[Chanur]

I have 60's on both alliance and horde. And premades suck on both sides. On the bonus honor weekends, for WSG unless you are in a premade you can expect to win maybe 1 in 10, most of those with no caps. I run with 2 other people. We try, but not much you can do against the constant stream of tier 2/3 alliance presets. AB is almost as bad, its usually a string of 4-5 presets, then a pug, then stream, then a pug etc.

[Immy]

Originally Posted by Makata

Frankly, if you end your day 1-10 or some such, I don't think you deserve dick. Maybe some tokens, or honor than can only be spent on rank 10 and below shit, but fuck you in your ear if you want to encourage losing your way to HWL.

I dont think Johnny Casual would agree with you all that much. The guy who logs in for 2 hours a day, joins nothing but pugs that get steamrolled by premades...then logs out with 100 honor because he didn't win just wont slide. The only way they can have 0 rewards for losers is if games are on a even playing field. Meaning, if you take away the group option for joining and you make "stinkyqueueing" impossible, then perhaps it's feasable to have no bonus honor for losers. For now just accept the fact that premades get a shit load more honor than any "loser" pug guy will ever get in the same time frame.

As for the hardcore profressional AV botter who logs in and idles for 15 hours a day, yeah thats a bit of an issue. I think it's an issue with finding these people and giving them suspensions/bannings moreso than changing the system just to fuck them over. The system with giving SOME honor to the losers isn't a bad one, as it's all a time investment but there are people that abuse it.

Unless you level the playing field (meaning no more pre-mades, and no way to "stinkyqueue" your guild into an instance), there absolutely has to be some kind of reward for the "losers" of this unbalanced and generally unfair system. Blizzard just needs to go into certain instances and randomly flag peoples accounts that are in AV for 20 minutes and have 0 damage and 0 healing done. It's rather simple actually.

*edit*

You could "split" pre-made and pugs, but the ability to "stinkyqueue" your team in anyway needs to be addressed first. Just have to face facts that the current BG system has flaws in it. PvP for the fun of it, if you turn it into something that it doesnt need to be, then dont pvp...or wait until arenas are out.

[Borzak]

We had a premade vs. premade WSG last night that lasted 1 hour and 5 minutes. We were both too stubborn to afk out and go onto another one. It finished up 3-0 but it took 30 minutes+ to get the first flag for us.

Imagine being on the losing end of that? Haha.

[CXB]

How different is that from something like a really long, well-played WC3/SC ladder match? There's always going to be a loser.

BGs need AT ladders and an RT option for those that don't want to play on teams. Give AT more points but make RT award at a rate thats ok for people who just PUG.

[Lweniel]

Originally Posted by Ravensign

I know its kludgey but maybe just standing near a node close enough would earn your credit. Somewhere unsafe, and not just in your base or tunnel or cave, and not waiting to rez.

PS. I don't have all the answers, I am just throwing shit out there, because obviously WoW PvP needs some kinda lovin'.

Even people visible at a node will put the opposition off attacking it, at least to wait for a bigger force. Make it so you click the rezzer to get the rez timer and AFK out people who don't and you mostly fix AFKing at nodes.

[johndoe]

Easiest way to get rid of "stinkyqueues" is just to remove all the BG numbers and just have join first avail, with either join as group, or just join.

[Sinter1]

You want to know the easiest way to fix WoW pvp? Get rid of battlegrounds. Worst fucking invention ever. I have hope for the Outlands in the beginning but once you and half the server is 70 again non instanced pvp will become non-existant again. To be totally honest the most fun I had in WoW pvp wise was with roaming groups through Searing Gorge, Blackrock Mountain, Burning Steppes etc. I had more fun organizing a raid on Crossroads at 48 and standing around for 5 minutes before the server crashed than I ever had in a battleground.

Does anyone actually consider them pvp anymore? Because I sure as hell haven't killed anyone in AV since I returned. The worst part about this is companies will see how popular WoW is and copy the battleground model and consider it "pvp". Blizzard killed pvp in WoW when they introduced battlegrounds.

[Seo]

first things first SCRAP the battlegrounds and if you MUST have them please please remake them to be mirrors of each other like in team fortress or something.

the imbalance for horde KILLS us in arathi basin it really does. Allieds have it fucking rough there. I don't understand it.

my list on how to fix it.

1) balance the terrains in the BGs make them exact copies of the other sides. (what would be the harm in that?)

2) yes the imbalance in races sucks but it really isn't the players fault you cant expect us to reroll because you fucked up. so here is an idea... make it so you can cross team have each battle group have only 1 queue for both horde and alliance. no one will really care in the end i bet. and it would completely get rid of queue times.

[Ossoi]

Originally Posted by Sinter1

The worst part about this is companies will see how popular WoW is and copy the battleground model and consider it "pvp". Blizzard killed pvp in WoW when they introduced battlegrounds.

Agreed, they applied the battle.net model to MMO PvP...what was wrong with traditional world pvp in the first place?

[chu]

Originally Posted by Plorkyeran

The one thing AB did right was make a good game not take that much longer than a non-5 cap blowout, as unless you consistantly 5-cap, hitting a premade will at most make you lose the honor from one win, instead of potentially many wins.

Random thoughts on how to fix things:
Split premade and pug.
Winning in Pugs should give about 50% more than losing does now, and losing should give half as much as losing now.
Winning in premades gives you current win honor, losing gives you nothing.

As a result, pugging gives fairly low honor even if you win, but consistant honor. Before I got the gear to HK farm, there were times where I'd spend an hour or two solo-queuing and end up with triple digit honor. This sort of thing results in large amounts of frustration.

For good honor, you'd have to group queue, and not suck. Fail to win any games, and you just get your HK honor. Suddenly preformed "lose groups" instantly cease to exist. By having a large honor difference, it also gets easier to define what is and isn't a preform. The only reason to try to get a preform into the pug queue (via queuing up at the same time/etc.) would be to grief solo queuers, which while fun for some, would not attract enough people to be a major problem.

This is how it should be. THere's absolutely no point in trying to fight a premade as a pug. On my mage, I try to kill someone and he gets healed to full and then I die. On my druid if I try to heal someone I get assisted on and I die. Every time. It's not fun whatsoever which is why many people just sit idly at the GY.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by chu

This is how it should be. THere's absolutely no point in trying to fight a premade as a pug. On my mage, I try to kill someone and he gets healed to full and then I die. On my druid if I try to heal someone I get assisted on and I die. Every time. It's not fun whatsoever which is why many people just sit idly at the GY.

Fuck honor. Fuck pussies. I PVP to kill shit. Pug or no pug, I am going to rack up kills and help my team win. Hell even if we are 5 capped or 2 flags down I am going to go ballz out. Why? Because anyone who min/maxes this shit is stupid and taking the FUN out of the game.

WSG.... What is the point? Cap flags. It is impossible to do this without combat. KILL SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I have personally wrecked the fuck out of premades by doing shit they do not expect. Things such as GY camping THEM. CCing their healers and letting the bitches kill the flag carrier.

If you play this game to get the gear as fast as possible.... Why not just generate gear on an emu server? I PVP to kill PLAYERS and sooner or later I might get some gear.

Maybe I am bias. Other than gems, there is 0 reason for me to PVP other than shear wreckage enjoyment. Yet, like an addicted fool, I queue game after game.

As to how to fix this PVP system? That is up to the players. There is not a single thing Blizzard can change or has changed that will fix this. Players will always gripe. There will always be one of two major issues with WOW:

A) A system where wow players strategically lose to get bonus honor vs fighting out a drawn out possible loss.

B) A system that rewards farming HK's and most likely making dots/hots the end all be all of honor.

The ONLY fix is a wide spread mentality change of the players. This will not ever happen but is the ONLY way. Players must learn to PVP to PVP. There is no benefit to doing counterstrike for hours and hours and hours besides fun. There is no point in playing raven shield or the R6 series for hours and hours besides fun. Bottom line...... Player mentality is wrecking the game.

Take your min/max and lick my ballz. I play for the hell of it. I play to win. 6 min WSG or 2 hour WSG doesnt mean shit to me if the competition is fearce.

[chu]

Originally Posted by yknits

Fuck honor. Fuck pussies. I PVP to kill shit. Pug or no pug, I am going to rack up kills and help my team win. Hell even if we are 5 capped or 2 flags down I am going to go ballz out. Why? Because anyone who min/maxes this shit is stupid and taking the FUN out of the game.

This is where your reasoning is moronic because you can't kill someone. Groups heal and assist each other unlike pugs. Fuck, in the groups I generally roll with we don't lose a person to most other groups.

edit: To be honest, I didn't read your entire post until I posted. I read that first tidbit and immediately saw that you are an idiot. If you like FIERCE COMPETITION, take your little tiny penis, put it between a door and a wall and slam, slam, slam, slam. That's what trying in a pug versus a premade feels like.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Ossoi

Agreed, they applied the battle.net model to MMO PvP...what was wrong with traditional world pvp in the first place?

It drove away customers.

[Sinter1]

Originally Posted by Itzena

It drove away customers.

Not going to disagree there. Blizzard accomplished what they wanted and that was to make an mmo as easy and accessable as possible for the casual gamers to enjoy so they can maxamise there profits. And that is what any good business should do. However, the companies that will try to copy them won't come away with anywhere near the success WoW did. Yes it did bring new people into the mmo industry, however I'd say a good majority of these new customers are from Blizzard's good name and the popularity of the Warcraft series, and most won't disagree. If any other current mmo implented the Battleground system as it is currently in WoW I fully believe it would've been a complete failure.

My point being, I fail to see how Blizzard can claim WoW to be a pvp game when pvp is basically non-exsistant. However, battlegrounds are here to stay and that is a large reason why I will not play WoW.

[chu]

SInter, you never really pvped battlegrounds or no, so I don't see where your argument is coming from.