the Black Temple will NOT be ready for burning crusade release.

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Kodylan

Tigole posted about this exactly and was very open about it:

Eye of the Storm -- in internal raid testing currently
Magtheridon's Lair -- ?? he didn't comment on this one
Grull's Lair -- internal raid testing
Serpentshrine Cavern -- just finished design phases and got pushed to QA testing
Hyjal Mountain -- internal raid testing

The real question is: there will be 3 missing Dungeons.

Ok, Black Temple, scratch one.

Then what in Outlands? Tempest keep will be complete. Caverns of Time will be complete. Karazhan is stand-alone and done. Auchindoun is complete and no raid. Gruul Lair is stand-alone and will be in. Coilfang will be complete, as well as Hellfire Citadel. That makes all of known Outland.

So, outside of Outlands, what do we have?

Zul'Aman (fun on PvP servers - the zone is safe haven for Horde), highly probably. Scratch two.

So, where is the missing third dungeon?

[Shikaze]

Their internal testing is clearly lightyears ahead of where it was for (lol) BWL. The latter half of Naxx, most of which wasn't experienced in any detail by people on the PTR proved that their internal raid team does a decent job.

I think the Cthun crisis taught them to pay very close attention to the numbers bosses should be playing with vs the numbers a co-ordinated 40-man raid can do.

Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad (apart from the later taking the day off), were clearly the best tuned and stable end-bosses Blizzard has ever created. If they can do that for bosses tuned to the top 1% of the raid population, I feel justified in having some confidence they can do alright with the ones meant for the majority of raiders.

[Cybsled]

Uh, Sunken Temple was in the original release guy. I guess you picked the game up post-release?

Heh Sunken Temple wasn't just in the game on release, it was in the game back in original beta when the cap hadn't even been raised past 50.

[Ellsworth]

Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn

Since this has to be repeated ad nauseum:

Old raid content is going to scale. The rewards are not. MC loot is trivialized in TBC. No one will bother. /end retarded argument.

Where are you getting the 'raid content difficulty scaling without scaling the rewards' from?

I've seen this several times but am desperately looking for a link to someone from blizzard confirming this.

[gremlinz273]

Originally Posted by Ellsworth

Where are you getting the 'raid content difficulty scaling without scaling the rewards' from?

I've seen this several times but am desperately looking for a link to someone from blizzard confirming this.

I think we are all waiting for some message from blizzard on this. But proof is in, I think, two(2) other threads on this board. Bosses will scale with your level, they are always 'your level+2'. This means they will hit level 70s much harder than they hit level 60s.

[Ellsworth]

Originally Posted by gremlinz273

I think we are all waiting for some message from blizzard on this. But proof is in, I think, two(2) other threads on this board. Bosses will scale with your level, they are always 'your level+2'. This means they will hit level 70s much harder than they hit level 60s.

Or does that just mean that as far as weapon skill/defense they will always be +2 levels to us?

If it was just a change in weapon skill and defense skill, and not a change in armor, hit points and all other stats, then all that will mean is they will be as easy/hard to hit as they were when we were the 'relevent' level for the mob. But at the same time we'll have more armor, more stats, more hitpoints new weapons, new spells etc...

This seems more likely to me for some reason.

[GrobbeeTrull]

Look at the Venoxis screen in this thread. It shows the ZG boss thumping on a 70 warrior for about 800, whereas now it's about 500.

[copernic]

Consensus from the Beta boards is that the overly-scaling raid bosses is a consequence of old programming not changed to reflect the growing level cap. No one except a few diehards would want to do old raid dungeons between 60-70 anyway, so Blizz has no real incentive to fix it.

Blue has mentioned eventually going back and implementing a Heroic Mode for these old raids and stuff like Scholomance, which would be pretty cool, and not all that hard given sufficiently flexible token system. But it sounds like a 'maybe in a year or so' thing.

[DisgruntledOrangatang]

Originally Posted by Kodylan

Tigole posted about this exactly and was very open about it:

Eye of the Storm -- in internal raid testing currently
Magtheridon's Lair -- ?? he didn't comment on this one
Grull's Lair -- internal raid testing
Serpentshrine Cavern -- just finished design phases and got pushed to QA testing
Hyjal Mountain -- internal raid testing

Ah I missed that, thank goodness then.

As for the mob level scaling, I already posted on that here but here we go again:

It was a bug, a bunch of skull mobs have already been given fixed levels.

[Esmo]

Originally Posted by DisgruntledOrangatang

Ah I missed that, thank goodness then.

As for the mob level scaling, I already posted on that here but here we go again:

It was a bug, a bunch of skull mobs have already been given fixed levels.

ty, i thought it seemed completely moronic.

[Deris]

Magtheridon already existed in an older Beta build pre 70 afaik - so he may be very well done, or close to done.

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Ellsworth

Or does that just mean that as far as weapon skill/defense they will always be +2 levels to us?

+3, but that's nitpicking.

If it was just a change in weapon skill and defense skill, and not a change in armor, hit points and all other stats, then all that will mean is they will be as easy/hard to hit as they were when we were the 'relevent' level for the mob. But at the same time we'll have more armor, more stats, more hitpoints new weapons, new spells etc...

Except for Nax. Given how they did the progression, at 70, you will nearly equivalent stuff. There's zero pre-heroic dungeon armor with more AC than T3 (and even Heroic armor is barely above - you need Karazhan/fixed T4 to see a significant increase).

So, basically, when tanking a boss, your mitigation has gone down by 8-10% (say, from 70% to 60-62%... or from 30% base DPS to 40% base DPS: that's nearly 1/3 more dps taken), compared to what you were at 60, if you're looking at the latter stages of Nax. Compared to early stages, you can argue that you were supposed to be in T2/TAQ armor, and you probably have a bit better, but that leaves you at about the same difficulty as you were when you started to get into Naxxaramas... but without the possibility of progressing in gear within the zone itself.

As Tigole said months ago, Ragnaros should be doable with 15 people or so. But not because they're 70, more because they're Nax-level geared, with better weapons and a bigger HP total on the tanks.

[Ahnkosis]

Originally Posted by Ukerric

As Tigole said months ago, Ragnaros should be doable with 15 people or so. But not because they're 70, more because they're Nax-level geared, with better weapons and a bigger HP total on the tanks.

Even though they'll have Naxx level gear, it will break down to Naxx Weapons, with MC level armor (unless there is new Fire Resistance Gear coming?)

[Samflam]

Wouldn't our level by nature be enough resists?

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Wait, was there a post about all skull-level bosses being +3? Why yes, I think there was. Why can't people get this through their heads?