Blizzard taking legal action vs. the creator of "Glider"

[Elidrin]

I hope Blizzard nails his ass to the floor.

[Rotanee]

There are US federal laws which allow civil penalties of something like $500 per violation of copyright infringment. I am not sure if it applies just to the music industry. It is part of what gives teeth to the music industry for going after all the music downloaders in court.

Not to mention if Blizzard were to win, then I have to wonder how much of the revenue that guy took in can be considered their money.

No clue. These sort of damages could prevent Blizzard from having to make some vacuous (sp) argument this guys actions cost them profits because of server load or lost sales, etc.

[Zest]

Most court cases don't directly impact on your life outside of the courthouse. This does.

[Algrinon]

Time to go watch my Bears kick the shit out of the J. E. T. S. JETS! JETS! JETS! But, I will bite.

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

Yes, this is exactly like Enron. The Glider guy IS responsible for the fifth largest bankruptcy is US history, defrauding millions of investors of their investment and thousands of employees of their pensions.

It is a white collar crime. I grant you it is not to the same degree, however, it is just like classifying murder. Murder 1, Murder 2, Manslaughter, Vehicular Manslaughter, Aggravated Manslaughter. Ect. You still prosecute crime.

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

Oh no he violated a contract!!!! Call the police!!!! You should probably look more carefully at the statutes you casually refer to, criminal prosecution is very limited and extremely, extremely rare.

Broken windows man, broken windows. You prosecute when you see it. Obviously, we can clearly see intellectual property was manipulated. Prosecutions are rare, but most prosecutors have a 95% or better rate of conviction. Trials are rare because most criminals take a plea deal to get a lesser or mitigated sentence. I know there are a lot of left wing people who say that this doesn't work, I simply disagree. I am not calling you liberal or leftist, I am just saying many people of that view of politics don't think it works. However, ask Rudy Giuliani or the mayor of Oklahoma City if it works. It really does. Maybe it is displacement, who knows, but when you work this, it does prevent crime.

This was my biggest argument all through pre-law (4 years) and law school. How people could so easily dismiss crime and say, "fuck it, it is not worth the time to prosecute." If this is true then what the fuck is the law on the books for? I personally think we have to many fucking laws from vehicle inspections to invading the homes of homosexuals to bust them for sodomy.

If you read the definition of sodomy, I think most of us here would be guilty of it in some form or fashion.

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

So you assume he didn't pay taxes...uh proof?

Learn2read. I said IF he didn't pay his taxes. This is just another way to prosecute someone who has found a loophole. I will quote myself for truth.

Originally Posted by Algrinon

If he didn't pay the IRS their cut then he is done, stick a fork in him.

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

The legal profession mourns the loss of potential you so obviously demonstrate in the first half of this post. To think, we could have been witness to such brilliant legal arguments such as, "Violation of ToS is just like Enron!". Our loss.

All I can say is I have a lot more fun doing what I do now than sitting in a courtroom in a suit. Also, I didn't say it was the same crime, I said it was the same type of crime, "White Collar." Again I will quote myself.

Originally Posted by Algrinon

So white collar crime isn't a big deal your right! The guys at Enron were not that bad. While I agree it is clearly more important to prosecute drug dealers and drunk drivers, people like the dude from WoW Glider need to be punished at well.

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

Well put sir, well put.

I know, I wrote it. This caused some of the greatest debate in my colligate career. I would be asked why I would "waste" time prosecuting users when there were dealers. I could not articulate to some people that when you see someone getting stoned, you need to prosecute that. If you do not bust the end user, then the next thing you know, people will be smoking in public, more that they already do. I would be kidding myself, and everyone here, if I said/thought that no one got stoned. LOL I would venture to say at least 25% of the people who frequent this board use in some form. =P

Like I would tell my professors: I am not arrogant, just confident!

EDIT:Spelling Error Corrected

[Algrinon]

Originally Posted by Zest

Most court cases don't directly impact on your life outside of the courthouse. This does.

QFT

[Vorph]

I can't think of better person to use as an example of what an overly-broad, fucked up piece of legislation the DMCA is than the guy who wrote Glider. Whether he gets time in Federal 'pump me in the ass' Prison or goes to the Supreme Court and gets the DMCA knocked down, it's a win-win situation.

(I know there's a lot more likely outcomes to the whole thing, but they're a lot less interesting and/or amusing)

[Rotanee]

Off topic and not trying to pretend I know it all, but a lot of contract law is often designed in the US to allow violations or breaches (always exceptions). It is hardly criminal unless there is overt fraud, embezzelment (sp) or violation of some regulation some place, those sort of things.

The idea is that if you start a contract with company A, but company B comes along and makes it worth it to you (it is more beneficial for whatever reason) to switch to company B, you do. You breach contract with A and form a new contract with B. However, you do have to make up for A's lost profits but that is usually figured into it when you switch to company B. Works out best for everyone, A wins, B wins and you win.

Business is often encouraged in the US by fostering/allowing competition. Allowing breach of contracts enhances that function.

OK, I will hush up now.

[Jagels]

Prison?, EULA "contracts"? DMCA? There's a lot of lols and nerd rage up in this thread haha. The most blizzard can do is ban his wow account.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Jagels

Prison?, EULA "contracts"? DMCA? There's a lot of lols and nerd rage up in this thread haha. The most blizzard can do is ban his wow account.

I'm pretty sure you know better than the lawyers Blizzard has asked about this before filing? ;P

[Daerath]

The funniest part of this entire thing would be if the guy who created the Glider, countersues Blizzard on the grounds that they reverse engineered the Glider software so they could detect it easier.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Jagels

Prison?, EULA "contracts"? DMCA? There's a lot of lols and nerd rage up in this thread haha. The most blizzard can do is ban his wow account.

I suggest you read the DMCA sometime. Set aside a few hours.

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Algrinon

Time to go watch my Bears kick the shit out of the J. E. T. S. JETS! JETS! JETS! But, I will bite.

It is a white collar crime. I grant you it is not to the same degree, however, it is just like classifying murder. Murder 1, Murder 2, Manslaughter, Vehicular Manslaughter, Aggravated Manslaughter. Ect. You still prosecute crime.

Broken windows man, broken windows. You prosecute when you see it. Obviously, we can clearly see intellectual property was manipulated. Prosecutions are rare, but most prosecutors have a 95% or better rate of conviction. Trials are rare because most criminals take a plea deal to get a lesser or mitigated sentence. I know there are a lot of left wing people who say that this doesn't work, I simply disagree. I am not calling you liberal or leftist, I am just saying many people of that view of politics don't think it works. However, ask Rudy Giuliani or the mayor of Oklahoma City if it works. It really does. Maybe it is displacement, who knows, but when you work this, it does prevent crime.

This was my biggest argument all through pre-law (4 years) and law school. How people could so easily dismiss crime and say, "fuck it, it is not worth the time to prosecute." If this is true then what the fuck is the law on the books for? I personally think we have to many fucking laws from vehicle inspections to invading the homes of homosexuals to bust them for sodomy.

If you read the definition of sodomy, I think most of us here would be guilty of it in some form or fashion.

Learn2read. I said IF he didn't pay his taxes. This is just another way to prosecute someone who has found a loophole. I will quote myself for truth.


All I can say is I have a lot more fun doing what I do now than sitting in a courtroom in a suit. Also, I didn't say it was the same crime, I said it was the same type of crime, "White Collar." Again I will quote myself.


I know, I wrote it. This caused some of the greatest debate in my colligate career. I would be asked why I would "waste" time prosecuting users when there were dealers. I could not articulate to some people that when you see someone getting stoned, you need to prosecute that. If you do not bust the end user, then the next thing you know, people will be smoking in public, more that they already do. I would be kidding myself, and everyone here, if I said/thought that no one got stoned. LOL I would venture to say at least 25% of the people who frequent this board use in some form. =P

Like I would tell my professors: I am not arrogant, just confident!

EDIT:Spelling Error Corrected

Except it NOT white-collar crime. Thats how stupid your analogy is from the outset. Fraud, embezzlement...THOSE are white-collar crimes son, not violating a contract.

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Vorph

I suggest you read the DMCA sometime. Set aside a few hours.

I suggest you get a JD sometime and then reread the DMCA. Set aside a few years.

[Rotanee]

Originally Posted by Jagels

Prison?, EULA "contracts"? DMCA? There's a lot of lols and nerd rage up in this thread haha. The most blizzard can do is ban his wow account.

I would think a good argument for Blizz to make is that by creating, advertising and selling the Glider program, he is encouraging and allowing the average player to breach the EULA. This extends not just to his own wow account, but to potential liability every time the glider program is used by someone else.

If Blizz can show breaching the EULA is a violation of their copyright (in other words some argument like we as players only lease the game to the extent Blizzard allows us and anything beyond that is using their copyrighted material without their permission) then to the same degree they might try to argue this guy should be held liable for every program he sold, or even perhaps for each of the trial versions that were downloaded.

Imagine if 100,000 people used the trial version just to try it, and Blizz can show this somehow by their monitoring. If there is some federal statue that allows them to collect a fine of say $250 for each one of those violations, well that is a scary thing.

**And that is a guess on my part, I have no clue what the available penalties are for copyright infringment of computer software, if any, other than to know such per-violation penalities exist in other cases.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

I suggest you get a JD sometime and then reread the DMCA. Set aside a few years.

Thanks but I don't need that to know an evil law when I see one.