FoH guide to EVE Online - Page 196

Fog · 07-04-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xequecal

"Figure out a way?" There's exactly one, you bring a Huginn or you don't bother. There's no possible way you'll ever catch a HAC that can overload to 8km/sec with anything else. Even with one they can still probably get away.

Gee - what ships go 8km/s all the time and are cheap as dirt? Fucking interceptors which do a good job of intercepting if you didn't notice. Put a web on your Taranis or Malediction, overload your own ass to 8km/s, and go to town. The fifteen or twenty seconds it takes to kill you is fifteen or twenty seconds that the HAC is sitting there webbed and scrambled waiting for someone else to put a broomstick in his butt.

You can also do this with interdictors which are liable to interdict his pod, but it's more expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

Apparently you've never been to syndicate, or I'm guessing any other 0.0 space. Because yes, 8km a sec is standard. Battleships are going 8km a sec. The low end is 4km and that's without overheating. Add a claymore and overheat that MWD to see what that ishtar is really doing.

You know perfectly well (or could look at my posts and see) that I've been in Goonswarm for about two years, so please don't feed me a line of bullshit about how apparently this and apparently that. My experience is that I can count the number of people I know who have HG snakes (esp. omega) on one hand, and I can count the number of people I have met in space who have HG snakes on the other hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

Using purely T2 fittings, that Ishtar does 9710 with a claymore in gang. 14.2km overheating. That means he never dies, so expensive implants doesn't matter. The ship costs 200mil fitted with polycarbs. Cheaper than a Fleet BS. Sure that has insurance when you lose it, but it's impossible to lose the ishtar unless you are a fucking nubsauce (there are several nub corps I know of who routinely fail at nanoing)

That's some cute rationalization there. The pilot never dies, so who cares about the price? Wait, you mean some of them die? Oh, well, they must be fucking nubsauces who routinely fail.

Well, news flash, not everyone is a well-oiled, omniscient, flawless machine 24/7 with 0ms latency and a max-skilled Claymore to be their bitch all day. Are you saying you fly that ship and don't ever die? If so, let's see the killboard. If not, then stop creating some nonexistent pilot who does this.

Reiteration of point: Nano-HACs are fast, but most of the people flying them don't have full high-grade snakes and 2-billion-isk deadspace cruiser MWDs and T2 rigs and a guy following them around giving them maxed out gang bonuses. They cost a shitload of money and take a long time to train, the slow ones aren't impossible or even particularly difficult to kill once they get in a fight, and the fast ones aren't either.

Kazgrim · 07-05-2008, 09:43 AM

Yes, 21km Ishtar's are a rare sight, only seem them like once a week in Syndicate. As I stated that was the high end of nanofaggotry. Thanks for turning that into a strawman so you could then try and turn it around and say nanofagging isn't that overpowered.

Here you go Fog just for you, and others a bit on the slow side:

8km a sec before overheating. 3% implants instead of 5%. dropped the named implants. Low grades instead of highs. YES EVERY SINGLE NANOGANG HAS A CLAYMORE IN IT. You are blind or a fool to believe otherwise. This is the BARE MINIMUM SPEED for any competant nanogang and yes this is what you see every single day, fight after fight when it comes to fighting nanos. Ishtar's are the slower of the nano-hacs, that's why we're using ishtars as an example.

Morning · 07-05-2008, 09:59 AM

Every fucking time, when tri existed we'd get a claymore in gang. When DICE was up here, almost all of em had snakes. Unless you get them at the gates, you cant catch them, because everyone in the gang has to have the snakes and speed, or the one or two that do get popped, and all that does is feed em kills. They are pretty overpowered

Fog · 07-05-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

Yes, 21km Ishtar's are a rare sight, only seem them like once a week in Syndicate. As I stated that was the high end of nanofaggotry. Thanks for turning that into a strawman so you could then try and turn it around and say nanofagging isn't that overpowered.

*picture*

That's fine; you can go 8km/s with gang bonuses and a cheap ship and low-grade snakes. Point taken. It's irrelevant, because 8km/s is a magic number that just came up in this discussion because Itzena mentioned it. You don't even need to go that fast to be an effective nano-HAC pilot.

I don't really have a "point" here, but if I did, it would be that you've then bought a HAC/fittings/rigs and spent a ton of isk on implants, and for what? What does your ship do so well that it's worth that money? It does a couple hundred DPS at short-medium range without dying, as long as it stays 25km away from battleships and 13km away from everything. I don't understand why that kind of gang is worth it. You could have bought a carrier with the money you spent on LG snakes, or you could have pimped the shit out of a fleet ship like a sniper or an interceptor or a DPS HAC (a fleet that ought to then drive away any nano-gang.)

Kazgrim · 07-05-2008, 10:40 AM

thats the point. You can spend whatever kind of ISK you want on any kind of ship in game, and it's going to tank leet dps or do amazing dps or whatever. Who cares, Once you're committed to a fight, you are either going to win or you are going to die.

nanofagging allows you to disengage at will from any fight you don't think you can win, period. It allows you to gank with impunity, it allows you to skirmish with fleets, pick off stragglers and then disengage. As long as you are not a retard it allows you to never die. You can spend even more isk on high grade slaves and Core-X tank and it doesn't add 1/100 of the survivability of spending a fraction of that isk on nanoing.

btw 8km is the speed you need to go from 0km to outside of reconV web range before a huginn/rapier can lock you. In all honesty you are correct, 4-6km is fast enough. The faster the more rediculous and less likely you can be countered by anything.

Fog · 07-05-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

nanofagging allows you to disengage at will from any fight you don't think you can win, period. It allows you to gank with impunity, it allows you to skirmish with fleets, pick off stragglers and then disengage. As long as you are not a retard it allows you to never die. You can spend even more isk on high grade slaves and Core-X tank and it doesn't add 1/100 of the survivability of spending a fraction of that isk on nanoing.

I really don't agree with that. I flew an interceptor all the time (past-tense because I haven't played much at all in the past two or three months.) In my experience, there are three steps to killing a fast thing:

1) I run after it and tackle it, which I can do unless it's really really fast, since even the cheapest interceptor with no rigs or implants goes 6.5km/s before gang bonuses or overheating.

2) A Blackbird or something jams it, which is easy, since HACs have pretty low sensor strength.

3) Some DPS ship shoots at it until it dies, which doesn't take long.

Barring some miracle or very awful luck, the only reason this won't work is if your gang doesn't have an interceptor (or multiple interceptors, if you're facing some big nanogang) or doesn't have enough EW or DPS. This might be true if you only have a couple people, but in a medium-sized gang it should be no problem.

Sometimes there might be poor coordination, and I might die in my interceptor, but often I can escape; and if I do, it's not really a big deal, since my ship costs maybe 15 or 20 million isk.

Can the HACs run away from any gang with interceptors or EW? Sure, but who will they shoot? They won't be "skirmish[ing] with fleets" very often.

Anyway, I find it unnecessary to theorize about these things, because nano-HACs indisputably die every day in lots of different situations. It's ridiculous flamebait to hand-wave away those deaths by saying they were "retards."

EDIT: Also, I disagree re: slaves; I think that in a sizable remote rep gang, spending that money on slaves and faction tank would pay off just as much or more, although it's hard to quantify. Having a huge buffer means that you can almost always deaggress and jump through a gate or dock. (However, since you're mostly stationary, your pod is much more at risk when you do die.)

Kazgrim · 07-06-2008, 12:36 AM

Ok A: You are in goonswarm so you're idea about how fleets operate are incomparable to anyone else. Blobbing is the standard counter for nanoing. Just bring soo much crap that they don't bother to engage you. This only works if your blob isn't composed of retards. nanofleets can engage blob fleets and decimate them, regroup, decimate, regroup all night with impunity, as long as they try to do what you are saying. Blobbing as a counter only works as long as you stay huddled together (on a gate, station, etc).

B: Any ship that moves outside of the herd instantly dies to a nano gang. Your 1, 2, 3 step process would only conceivably work in a blob with as many interceptors as the total nanogang, because your interceptors life expectancy chasing after a nanoship is 4 seconds (in those 4 seconds you aren't tackling anything as your cap is alpha'd you are webbed to 3m/s and have 50 warrior IIs on you). Nanofleets RELY on retards doing precisely this, moving away from the herd and allowing themselves to get singled out, in order for them to get picked off.

Sorry but you have been out of the game too long to comment on nanofaggotry.

Fog · 07-06-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazgrim

B: Any ship that moves outside of the herd instantly dies to a nano gang. Your 1, 2, 3 step process would only conceivably work in a blob with as many interceptors as the total nanogang, because your interceptors life expectancy chasing after a nanoship is 4 seconds (in those 4 seconds you aren't tackling anything as your cap is alpha'd you are webbed to 3m/s and have 50 warrior IIs on you). Nanofleets RELY on retards doing precisely this, moving away from the herd and allowing themselves to get singled out, in order for them to get picked off.

How am I moving away from the herd? Nano-HACs are not sniping ships. I'm not flying 100km away to chase them; if they want to shoot at anything, they are the ones that need to come to the herd to do it.

Kazgrim · 07-06-2008, 12:52 AM

no, they don't. Get with the times man. You're still assuming nanofag = Vagabond. Vagabonds are purely heavy tackle nowadays.

Seriously, play the game before you comment on the current state of affairs.

Xequecal · 07-06-2008, 01:12 AM

Fog: Nanogangs and solo-ganking nanoships are very different. For example. Vagabonds and Sacrileges are excellent at solo-ganking when nanoed, but they're pretty terrible in nanogangs.

Speed in Eve needed to be hard capped by ship class about a year ago. They've nerfed nanos twice now to no real effect, people just keep finding different ways to do it. Not to mention the addition of heat and repair paste, which single-handedly made nanoing more overpowered than it was before they nerfed the actual nanofiber modules.

Dildo Faggins · 07-06-2008, 02:52 AM

LoL. You're all retards, and im an authoratative source on retardation.

Taloo · 07-06-2008, 03:43 PM

Ok so I was dicking around with the free 14 days they sent out training some skills and fucking off. Put it on autopilot(0.8-1.0) headed to Jita and went for a smoke. I come back and I'm "nowhere". Can't warp nothing on my dropdown no gates no stations nothing. I alt F4 out and now I can't get my character to load. I freeze at confirming navigation waypoints(?whatever the last thing before you load into game is. Full load bar.) If I hit escape it will poof the loading bar and give me a black screen. Hit it again and I see my ship and hud for an instant before it goes to the option menu with the blurry space background of where I am. Tried rebooting doesn't help.

I did try creating a new character and that loaded into the station fine and no problems undocking. Anyone have any idea what the fuck is going on?

Edit: oh and when I'm on the black screen I have my desktop cursor. No interactivity with the program at all except for the escape key,

Dildo Faggins · 07-06-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taloo

Ok so I was dicking around with the free 14 days they sent out training some skills and fucking off. Put it on autopilot(0.8-1.0) headed to Jita and went for a smoke. I come back and I'm "nowhere". Can't warp nothing on my dropdown no gates no stations nothing. I alt F4 out and now I can't get my character to load. I freeze at confirming navigation waypoints(?whatever the last thing before you load into game is. Full load bar.) If I hit escape it will poof the loading bar and give me a black screen. Hit it again and I see my ship and hud for an instant before it goes to the option menu with the blurry space background of where I am. Tried rebooting doesn't help.

I did try creating a new character and that loaded into the station fine and no problems undocking. Anyone have any idea what the fuck is going on?

Edit: oh and when I'm on the black screen I have my desktop cursor. No interactivity with the program at all except for the escape key,

Actually, everything sounds like its working normally. This is why everyone and their brother says "stay the fuck away from jita on weekends"

forge · 07-06-2008, 06:57 PM

haha I was laughing as soon as I read that post. Welcome to jita. Just go do something and wait for the grid to load.

Surlok TP · 07-06-2008, 07:40 PM

I don't understand, if everyone knows about Jita, and I know everyone knows, then why the fuck do people still go there?

I understand newbies hitting the area,but the other race trade hubs are not nearly as bad, I also understand it's significance in terms of proximity to other points of interest and hubs and routes but even still. I only visited Jita once ,and it was during a weekday and I had some mission or something, I forget. I never went back and it just boggles my mind why people consistently go there.

07-05-2008, 10:40 AM	#2930 (permalink)
Kazgrim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 443 +3 Internets	thats the point. You can spend whatever kind of ISK you want on any kind of ship in game, and it's going to tank leet dps or do amazing dps or whatever. Who cares, Once you're committed to a fight, you are either going to win or you are going to die. nanofagging allows you to disengage at will from any fight you don't think you can win, period. It allows you to gank with impunity, it allows you to skirmish with fleets, pick off stragglers and then disengage. As long as you are not a retard it allows you to never die. You can spend even more isk on high grade slaves and Core-X tank and it doesn't add 1/100 of the survivability of spending a fraction of that isk on nanoing. btw 8km is the speed you need to go from 0km to outside of reconV web range before a huginn/rapier can lock you. In all honesty you are correct, 4-6km is fast enough. The faster the more rediculous and less likely you can be countered by anything. Last edited by Kazgrim : 07-05-2008 at 10:44 AM.

07-06-2008, 12:36 AM	#2932 (permalink)
Kazgrim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 443 +3 Internets	Ok A: You are in goonswarm so you're idea about how fleets operate are incomparable to anyone else. Blobbing is the standard counter for nanoing. Just bring soo much crap that they don't bother to engage you. This only works if your blob isn't composed of retards. nanofleets can engage blob fleets and decimate them, regroup, decimate, regroup all night with impunity, as long as they try to do what you are saying. Blobbing as a counter only works as long as you stay huddled together (on a gate, station, etc). B: Any ship that moves outside of the herd instantly dies to a nano gang. Your 1, 2, 3 step process would only conceivably work in a blob with as many interceptors as the total nanogang, because your interceptors life expectancy chasing after a nanoship is 4 seconds (in those 4 seconds you aren't tackling anything as your cap is alpha'd you are webbed to 3m/s and have 50 warrior IIs on you). Nanofleets RELY on retards doing precisely this, moving away from the herd and allowing themselves to get singled out, in order for them to get picked off. Sorry but you have been out of the game too long to comment on nanofaggotry. Last edited by Kazgrim : 07-06-2008 at 12:45 AM.

07-06-2008, 12:52 AM	#2934 (permalink)
Kazgrim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 443 +3 Internets	no, they don't. Get with the times man. You're still assuming nanofag = Vagabond. Vagabonds are purely heavy tackle nowadays. Seriously, play the game before you comment on the current state of affairs. Last edited by Kazgrim : 07-06-2008 at 12:55 AM.

07-06-2008, 01:12 AM	#2935 (permalink)
Xequecal Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,281 -6 Internets	Fog: Nanogangs and solo-ganking nanoships are very different. For example. Vagabonds and Sacrileges are excellent at solo-ganking when nanoed, but they're pretty terrible in nanogangs. Speed in Eve needed to be hard capped by ship class about a year ago. They've nerfed nanos twice now to no real effect, people just keep finding different ways to do it. Not to mention the addition of heat and repair paste, which single-handedly made nanoing more overpowered than it was before they nerfed the actual nanofiber modules. __________________ "I imagine that at this point, Al Gore rues the day he invented the electoral college." Last edited by Xequecal : 07-06-2008 at 01:23 AM.

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07-05-2008, 09:43 AM	#2927 (permalink)
Kazgrim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 443 +3 Internets	Yes, 21km Ishtar's are a rare sight, only seem them like once a week in Syndicate. As I stated that was the high end of nanofaggotry. Thanks for turning that into a strawman so you could then try and turn it around and say nanofagging isn't that overpowered. Here you go Fog just for you, and others a bit on the slow side: 8km a sec before overheating. 3% implants instead of 5%. dropped the named implants. Low grades instead of highs. YES EVERY SINGLE NANOGANG HAS A CLAYMORE IN IT. You are blind or a fool to believe otherwise. This is the BARE MINIMUM SPEED for any competant nanogang and yes this is what you see every single day, fight after fight when it comes to fighting nanos. Ishtar's are the slower of the nano-hacs, that's why we're using ishtars as an example.

07-05-2008, 09:59 AM	#2928 (permalink)
Morning Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22 +2 Internets	Every fucking time, when tri existed we'd get a claymore in gang. When DICE was up here, almost all of em had snakes. Unless you get them at the gates, you cant catch them, because everyone in the gang has to have the snakes and speed, or the one or two that do get popped, and all that does is feed em kills. They are pretty overpowered

07-06-2008, 02:52 AM	#2936 (permalink)
Dildo Faggins Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,261 -64 Internets	LoL. You're all retards, and im an authoratative source on retardation.

07-06-2008, 03:43 PM	#2937 (permalink)
Taloo Fires of Heaven WoW Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 551	Ok so I was dicking around with the free 14 days they sent out training some skills and fucking off. Put it on autopilot(0.8-1.0) headed to Jita and went for a smoke. I come back and I'm "nowhere". Can't warp nothing on my dropdown no gates no stations nothing. I alt F4 out and now I can't get my character to load. I freeze at confirming navigation waypoints(?whatever the last thing before you load into game is. Full load bar.) If I hit escape it will poof the loading bar and give me a black screen. Hit it again and I see my ship and hud for an instant before it goes to the option menu with the blurry space background of where I am. Tried rebooting doesn't help. I did try creating a new character and that loaded into the station fine and no problems undocking. Anyone have any idea what the fuck is going on? Edit: oh and when I'm on the black screen I have my desktop cursor. No interactivity with the program at all except for the escape key,

07-06-2008, 06:57 PM	#2939 (permalink)
forge CTW! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: at work Posts: 446 +0 Internets	haha I was laughing as soon as I read that post. Welcome to jita. Just go do something and wait for the grid to load.

07-06-2008, 07:40 PM	#2940 (permalink)
Surlok TP Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 1,584 +9 Internets	I don't understand, if everyone knows about Jita, and I know everyone knows, then why the fuck do people still go there? I understand newbies hitting the area,but the other race trade hubs are not nearly as bad, I also understand it's significance in terms of proximity to other points of interest and hubs and routes but even still. I only visited Jita once ,and it was during a weekday and I had some mission or something, I forget. I never went back and it just boggles my mind why people consistently go there.