FoH guide to EVE Online

[...]

the transition from shield tanking myrmi to domi definately isn't as smooth as going armor tank to armor tank. I didn't even think about a shield tanking myrmi when i made the assertion to begin with.

I will however, reiterate that the cpu and power on the domi makes you able to go absolutely nuts with the fittings (if you just migrate up mostly medium fittings) on a relatively low SP build (as compared to a BC).

[Vorph]

I see what he means though, if I'm hovering at around 30% (4200 hp) and regen'ing ~350hp/s and I get hit with a burst of 2-3k kinetic damage which I only have 40% resist against, then I'd be in serious trouble as regen starts to dive. I do missions for Brutor Tribe though, and all their best agents are in highsec, so that's really not a concern.

Unfortunately all my praise for the passive Myrm will be moot soon. If I have my way I'll be out in 0.0 by the end of the month in an area without agents, so I will need a ship that can rat and still carry a pvp fitting (MWD/2 damps/scram at least) to defend itself. I think the Myrm could do it, but I also know you guys are right that the Domi will do it much better. Ah well..

And so as to keep the conversation helpful to more than just 'Minmatar pilots who fly passive Myrmidons'... what sort of preparations should one make for the transition from empire to 0.0 (most likely SE, if that matters)? Thinking mainly in terms of whether its necessary to stock up on modules/ships/ammo, and whatever else people might say "wow, I really wish I'd thought of that before I left" about...

[Fog]

Oh, ok, nevermind that stuff then. I was talking about PvP the whole time.

If we're talking about running missions, though - running level 4s efficiently means "tank the amount necessary, and do as much damage as you can conceivably do while maintaining that tank." Since the Dominix can fit large guns - and even gets a bonus to them - I would figure that it could do level 4s faster (assuming low slots are dedicated to tank, which I can't comment on because I run in a Raven and don't have armor tanking experience or numbers handy.)

There's some advantage to having a passive tank since you're less vulnerable to lag or crashes, but if you're not missioning in Motsu or Saila I don't think that's a serious concern.

[Tirinal]

Originally Posted by Vorph

And so as to keep the conversation helpful to more than just 'Minmatar pilots who fly passive Myrmidons'... what sort of preparations should one make for the transition from empire to 0.0 (most likely SE, if that matters)? Thinking mainly in terms of whether its necessary to stock up on modules/ships/ammo, and whatever else people might say "wow, I really wish I'd thought of that before I left" about...

T1 blueprints for absolutely everything you can fit and can afford. The first time I was down in syndicate I didn't have a sensor booster I bpo and the only ones on the market were either 35 jumps away or at a 5,000% markup. Don't be me.

Do your research into politics for the region before you go. Get jumpclones. Fit prototype cloaks on everything. Type "FRIEND OF BOB" in giant, pink font somewhere in your bio.

Also, be sure to instinctively shoot a random neutral on a gate in lowsec before you go. You'll do it eventually anyway so you should probably get it over with.

[Kazgrim]

along the lines of what Tirinal said, Ammo. Seriously, bring ammo, either bulk or BPOs if you can make your own. I've probably brought in a freighter's worth of goods, "thinking ahead", all kinds of spare ships, modules, just off the wall shit I though perhaps maybe I could possibly someday find a use for. But man, 90% of that is useless without ammo. You'd be surprised at how rare ammo is in certain 0.0 markets, and it's obvious how effective your 200mil ship+T2/named fittings will be without it.

[WillzZz]

Originally Posted by Vorph

I see what he means though, if I'm hovering at around 30% (4200 hp) and regen'ing ~350hp/s and I get hit with a burst of 2-3k kinetic damage which I only have 40% resist against, then I'd be in serious trouble as regen starts to dive. I do missions for Brutor Tribe though, and all their best agents are in highsec, so that's really not a concern.

Unfortunately all my praise for the passive Myrm will be moot soon. If I have my way I'll be out in 0.0 by the end of the month in an area without agents, so I will need a ship that can rat and still carry a pvp fitting (MWD/2 damps/scram at least) to defend itself. I think the Myrm could do it, but I also know you guys are right that the Domi will do it much better. Ah well..

And so as to keep the conversation helpful to more than just 'Minmatar pilots who fly passive Myrmidons'... what sort of preparations should one make for the transition from empire to 0.0 (most likely SE, if that matters)? Thinking mainly in terms of whether its necessary to stock up on modules/ships/ammo, and whatever else people might say "wow, I really wish I'd thought of that before I left" about...

Myrmi is more than fine for pvp+rat fitting. Only catch is you can't really loot very much if you're ratting because you need cap boosters. Other than that, it's probably faster, just because it flies faster than a NOSDomi. It can do any spawn pretty easily, although you may choose to change your hardeners around (usually kin/therm/exp, if you rat angels, I guess you'd 2x eanm 1xexp, whatever..) So yeah. Also it fits in a carrier, which your domi will not, for whatever that's worth.


edit: I suppose it's worth mentioning to drop a can in your safe spot and filling it with ammo/boosters and filling it with loot while you rat (if you hadn't thought of that already). I just meant I don't pick up a lot of stuff and haul it to that can because it's a pita if you take a trip every belt or two. I just keep stuff worth selling, really.

[Lucificate]

Been screwing around with a useless but neat tank setup tonight.

I had a Nighthawk set up with 5 SPR II, 2 Core Defense Field Purgers, T2 passive EM shield resist mod and 4 LSE II (the highs are unimportant). It could tank my carrier's 10 fighters (Fighters level 5) and remain just above peak recharge rate. Caught me off guard, figured my fighters would still break the tank. It was also able to tank a blasterthron, torp raven, and nightmare (and their drones) right around peak recharge. A completely useless but perversely fun set up. Especially neat to tank so much while completely out of cap and also just using T2 gear.

18,916 shield: 155 sec recharge rate with 54 70 72 78 resists.

What are some other invincible space brick setups?

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Lucificate

Been screwing around with a useless but neat tank setup tonight.

I had a Nighthawk set up with 5 SPR II, 2 Core Defense Field Purgers, T2 passive EM shield resist mod and 4 LSE II (the highs are unimportant). It could tank my carrier's 10 fighters (Fighters level 5) and remain just above peak recharge rate. Caught me off guard, figured my fighters would still break the tank. It was also able to tank a blasterthron, torp raven, and nightmare (and their drones) right around peak recharge. A completely useless but perversely fun set up. Especially neat to tank so much while completely out of cap and also just using T2 gear.

18,916 shield: 155 sec recharge rate with 54 70 72 78 resists.

What are some other invincible space brick setups?

Using a Vulture, gang shield mods, crystal set, capacitor flux coils, and Gist X-type large booster, you can permatank about 5,500 DPS forever with only T2 stuff fitted and T1 rigs.

If you have money to burn and can use DG Invuln Fields and Tech II boost rigs, it gets sicker. With 2 tech 2 boost amps, 2 tech 2 boost rigs, 2 DG Invuln Fields, Gist X-type booster, the two shield gang mods, and maxxed skills, you'll be boosting ~520 shield/sec with average kin/therm resists of 93.5%. That's 8,000 DPS permatanked. You can sustain it forever off 4x cap flux coils and 1x cap recharger II in your remaining midslot.

With the same setup with an injector in the place of one amp and an XL shield booster, you can tank about 12,200 Kin/Therm DPS, but of course it won't run forever, only until you're out of charges.

EDIT: Forgot to mention you also need the Siege Warfare Mindlink implant to make this work.

[Antarius]

Other than the ammo suggestion, I'd also suggest you bring a ship that's better for "ganking" and less for "tanking" When you're ratting, the most dps you'll ever be facing at a time is like 2 battleships + 3 cruisers, that's a far cry from level 4 missions where you could be expected to take 5 BS + 4 Battlecruiser + 3-4 frigates (or more). I'm using a maelstrom atm, but definatly wish I was in a phoon or tempest.

[Dildo Faggins]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

EDIT: Forgot to mention you also need the Siege Warfare Mindlink implant to make this work.

and what makes this funny is one nos domi will beat you pretty easily one on one.

[Lucificate]

ya, i know about great active tanks such as the vulture you describe, but it's the ability to tank my carrier with 0 cap that makes the nighthawk tank so fun

i hope this upcoming nerf to BC shield recharge is just for the new T1 BCs and not poor little command ships

[...]

balancing changes for revelations two

still reading but...uh..

Another issue is the Amarrian focus on EM damage in combination with the prevalence of armor tanking in PVP. Armor has a natural high resistance against EM and Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes - which increase resistances across the board - are quite popular on many setups (a.k.a. omni-tanks) because they provide a very good return for the resources they require. This in turn means that many ships have very high EM resists, which is a problem for the Amarr at long range in particular. This is different from shield tanking where omni-tanks are less of an issue. The equivalent modules, Invulnerability Fields, require as much CPU as active shield hardeners and also have a higher capacitor consumption rate. Shield tanking has a natural high resistance against explosive damage, but the Minmatar, which are focused towards explosive damage, have greater flexibility with respect to damage types than the Amarr.

Additionally, shield tanking is less used for PVP, so shield omni-tanks are less of a problem for the Minmatar. In order to encourage pilots to use single resist armor hardeners rather than stacking up on Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes, the CPU requirements have been adjusted as follows: Armor hardeners have been decreased (from 44tf to 36tf for Tech 2) and Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes have been increased (from 30tf to 36tf for Tech 2).

Energized membranes in general have been needlessly hard to fit on frigates as they required 2mw power, so the requirement has been lowered to 1mw like most other "class-less" modules. Finally the power need of Medium Beam lasers have been reduced (from 16mw to 13mw for Tech 2) in order to make them a viable option for frigates.

Did they nerf nano armor tanks...to fix amarr? o.O

Passive shield tanking has also been adjusted, as some ships were slightly too powerful. The shield recharge time on Battle Cruisers has been nerfed slightly and the CPU requirement has been increased on Shield Power Relays and decreased on Shield Rechargers.

Hull tanking is, strangely enough, quite effective

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Lucificate

i hope this upcoming nerf to BC shield recharge is just for the new T1 BCs and not poor little command ships

Yea, it's BC only. Kind of a dumbass change too, since it won't nerf a passive Myrm (or Drake I would assume) enough to stop it from doing L4 missions, and passive tanks like that are all but worthless outside of PVE anyway. Now if they nerfed SPR stacking instead of raising the cpu on it, that would suck.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Did they nerf nano armor tanks...to fix amarr? o.O

I think so. They'd better nerf MWD so Min don't have tracking problems while they're at it.

[Antarius]

The 15% less regen from the base recharge change won't prevent a drake from running 4s, but it will certainly be more "interesting" and instead of "pretty much" requiring maxed out skills to do any but the easiest ones, now "will" require maxed out skills to do the harder ones.

The CPU change could be either a little or alot for the drake setup, currently they require 1 cpu, if it's only changed to 5-10 or so, it would just require dropping the small tractor beam... if it's increased to 30 or so s ... well that would be "quite" problematic, to the point of "breaking" pretty much any reasonable drake build and would even prevent a nos/neut domi from being able to fit 6 of them.. Although 5 dual 180s + drone link augmentor would still be ok, which is a better pve fit anyways...

It currently provides more shield recharge than a shield recharger, which is currently 50 cpu... (and it's penalty is basically completely a non-issue, just like CPRs) So the actual numbers are really important.