FoH guide to EVE Online

[Hal2005]

Well more money would allow them enough temps to fix some of their net code, perhaps come up with a method to fix some of the bugs like Drones or gate crashing.

[Sancus]

um, software development simply doesn't work that way. No "temp" is going to fix those kinds of things effectively. And there probably isn't anything wrong with their netcode that is fixable easily even with someone already deeply familiar with their codebase. Keep in mind that their netcode that you're calling "broken" would be "working perfectly fine" in any other mmo.

Anyway, it's a basic software principle that throwing more coders at a codebase often causes more problems than it solves and isn't an easy fix: More money doesn't fix those problems. I can't imagine why their company's hiring would be limited by money.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by Sancus

um, software development simply doesn't work that way. No "temp" is going to fix those kinds of things effectively. And there probably isn't anything wrong with their netcode that is fixable easily even with someone already deeply familiar with their codebase. Keep in mind that their netcode that you're calling "broken" would be "working perfectly fine" in any other mmo.

Anyway, it's a basic software principle that throwing more coders at a codebase often causes more problems than it solves and isn't an easy fix: More money doesn't fix those problems. I can't imagine why their company's hiring would be limited by money.

I totally agree with you, and it's ridiculous how often I hear people say that you need more money / coders thrown at something when there's even a fucking book called myth of the man-hour month or something out there for retarded managers to read on that very topic:

"1975, Frederick Brooks, The Mythical Man-Month" veteran IBM programming manager

"he formulated Brooks's Law, which is both a principle and a paradox: "Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." "

[FoghornDeadhorn]

I think its a testament to their capabilities that people complain about not being able to have engagements totalling a thousand pilots. Their combat formulaes, though, do create a good bit extra load for the server, and as long as they use the kind of math that they do (I personally would prefer they not neuter any combat systems for the sake of lag) you will keep having these problems. There are things they can do, and are doing I'm sure -- fixing fleet code being one of the very top issues for fleet op pvpers. Another one, this was a nifty idea, is remove shields from drones. Just think, all those drones have shield ticks that need to be accounted for, why? Drones typically either die or are recalled before they do. Little things like that can make little increases, but as long as the server needs to compare a bunch of ranges, transversal velocities, the position, agility, max velocity, and remaining flight time of every missile in space...you know, those things make eve combat deep but they're a tax. If you accept one as good you have to accept the other which is lag.

[Sancus]

There are absolutely things that they can do to improve performance, and I do think that they could benefit from improved expertise in some areas - particularly the client's memory management is very poor, and I know at least two or three programmers who could probably fix that relatively quickly. That's a client-side issue, mind you, but it still means a real-world performance gain for a lot of people.

Unfortunately, people of that caliber don't grow on trees, and the number of coders of that caliber interested in game programming and willing to move to Iceland are extremely low regardless of the money(which is probably not terrible, but not the kind that is going to attract the highest quality of developer either - it's funny, but not surprising, that even Blizzard, with their insane revenues, do not pay their devs far outside of the industry standard, which is notably poor compared to other software industries. It wouldn't surprise me if CCP pays more on average, even, given their location.).

The lag is probably best dealt with design, as you said, there are problems with the way Fleets work obviously, and Fighters I believe also are a fairly significant issue, as well as the Drone thing that you mentioned. Hopefully they realize these things and are considering such changes.

[...]

some what random topic to toss up on the table:

Say I wanted to take up (player) pirate hunting, bounty hunting, and trashing gate campers for a pass time. what is the best way to approach that? any advice on how those folks operate and/or how to take up hunting them? I don't know enough about the makeup of a gate camper gang or anything...just something I'd been thinking about a little.

[Kirby]

if you wanted to solo trash gatecamps in low sec i would recommend a nos domi. Trashing 0.0 gatecamps solo is nearly impossible though. But if you have a good tank and good drone skills you can tear up to a 3 man gate camp apart with the help of sentries. That being said not many people camp low sec gates anymore.

[Tolanin]

And when they do its usually with a large force or like a carrier or something... camp busting is possible but hard and you might not find many.

I too would recommend a nosdomi.. and make sure you have a scout looking around ahead of you. Best bet for finding pirates is prolly using the ships destroyed in the last hour function on the map to look for them.

[Tirinal]

Originally Posted by ...

some what random topic to toss up on the table:

Say I wanted to take up (player) pirate hunting, bounty hunting, and trashing gate campers for a pass time. what is the best way to approach that? any advice on how those folks operate and/or how to take up hunting them? I don't know enough about the makeup of a gate camper gang or anything...just something I'd been thinking about a little.

Piracy, if you have the SP, patience and the resources to support it, can be very successfully done solo. Anti-piracy, bountyhunting and gatecamp busting can almost never be done solo, or at least not with any consistent return.

In 0.0 anyway. I haven't actually done anything lowsec for ages.

[Celebrindal]

I'm thinking about coming back to the game this week. If I can't get straight back into a 0.0 alliance, I want to start a career as a pirate. Anyone in any of the large alliances interested in taking me in? I have around 11m sp.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

And when they do its usually with a large force or like a carrier or something... camp busting is possible but hard and you might not find many.

I too would recommend a nosdomi.. and make sure you have a scout looking around ahead of you. Best bet for finding pirates is prolly using the ships destroyed in the last hour function on the map to look for them.

Carriers can still be damped, scrambled, or otherwise jammed, can't they? What is there that prevents you from killing them if you perma jam them or damp them to the point where they can't target anything?

[Sancus]

You can do that, but I'm pretty sure Fighters will continue attacking regardless of if they're damped, and they can always assign their control to other people in the gang. Also, they have a pretty hefty permatank when fitted right, a few thousand dps at least.

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by merkur

Was a very fun, very fast battle. I salute the Capt Morgans, they were awsome sports about the whole thing, both sides had a blast, even with us gettin wiped out.

Takin down the 'geddon was a huge rush.

the last hours of the war were fun too, we were running up the pipe to Jita in a gang and killing some lone Privateers when suddenly local was rising and a gang of ~20 of them from different PRVT corps in a mix of BS/Ints/AF's etc were jumping on us
FC yelled to leg it back to HQ, unfortunately we lost 2 Ravens due to their slow ass aligning and getting tackled/scrammed before they could warp off
when we reached our HQ we were told to sit in a SS until reinforcement was under way/logging in, meanwhile the privateer gang was camping the system for a while (and damn they can lay down some smack) while we were cooking up a surprise for them
to our dismay however they instantly left the system after they saw our dread undocking

[merkur]

Originally Posted by Manticore

the last hours of the war were fun too, we were running up the pipe to Jita in a gang and killing some lone Privateers when suddenly local was rising and a gang of ~20 of them from different PRVT corps in a mix of BS/Ints/AF's etc were jumping on us
FC yelled to leg it back to HQ, unfortunately we lost 2 Ravens due to their slow ass aligning and getting tackled/scrammed before they could warp off
when we reached our HQ we were told to sit in a SS until reinforcement was under way/logging in, meanwhile the privateer gang was camping the system for a while (and damn they can lay down some smack) while we were cooking up a surprise for them
to our dismay however they instantly left the system after they saw our dread undocking

I was reading about poor uber. All in all, it was a good war. It's probobly not somthing I would like all the time, there are alot of classes I want to take. But it's definity somthing fun to do, to put all of our training into practice, maybe bi-montly.

The PA guys were talking about E-UNI on the CAOD forums, people were giving them flak for dec'in IVY.

HERE

Pretty much came down to folks saying, we're not weak at all, and it's true, we definlty held our own on this. I actually had loads of fun fighting small scale battles, and large blobs as well.

Any experience can be put to good experience. Yea, did I loose a ship or two? Sure I did! Did I get that replaced? Nah, I paid out of my own pocket, it was my choice to go into a war setting, so I'll be responsible for it.

But I did learn alot of new things during the war, and that's what being in the UNI is all about.

I like fighting the privs, I really do, they're great sports, and I understand why they do what they do.

But, I'd also like to get back to classes, running courier contracts, and start up a lil production again. It's been a great diversion, in all honesty, and great training.

I, probobly like most of the UNI, would welcome this every few months. I would also like for us to get back to doing what we do best, teach and learn.

[Kazgrim]

Traditionally, anti-piracy is more of a principle or a state of mind rather than a career. To say the least it doesn't pay the bills and not something you'd do solo. I used to live in lowsec as part of an anti-pirate corp so I could give you alot of advice, tips and tricks that pirates use so you can learn how to counter them, but its definitely not a lone wolf activity, its something a group like a corporation or an alliance does. The purpose of anti-piracy is to create enough hassle for pirates so that they seek greener pastures, which allows your carebears/industry to do their thing in peace. Pirates are there to make money (most of them anyway) so anti-piracy is a means of upsetting their risk/reward ratio and get them to just go pirate elsewhere, not a means of actually ending piracy. As long as you ignore them in local the e-peen leet type dudes in it for the "glory" will leave as well.

Now something that might be a little bit more along the lines of what you are talking about is Piracy itself. It's a dog-eat-dog world, nothing wrong with ganking the ganker right after he ganks the carebear, you have the benefit of having the other pirate springing the trap if the 'carebear' is actually anti-pirate bait. Get yourself an alt covops with good scanning skills and you can go to work.