/. discovers MMOs can be addicting

[Angry Amadeus]

Originally Posted by Hex

Wait, what?

You play WoW while you are on a treadmill?

I ... don't know what to say.

Mind is boggled.

USA Today: "The popular Multiplayer Online Game ' world of warcraft ', is to begin implementing restrictions on players using "cheat codes" or "macros", with the release of it's newest version of the game, "The Boiling Crusades". Apparently, this has some parents up in arms, who were banking on their children losing weight by powering their "computers" with "treadmill activity". In related news, we're the worst online tabloid in existence, destroy us please."

[keflex]

I was the one who originally posted the link to these forums on your blog.

And enough of these "WoW ruins your life" "WoW doesn't have to ruin your life" bullshit topics on slashdot. You should make a topic that addresses the *REAL* matter at hand: "Should people with addictive behaviours be more careful in their activities?". The obvious answer is yes. Your friend got addicted to WoW, let his life crash and burn and then has the gall to do a write-up on the effects it had on his life. All with massive amounts of hyperbole ("WoW is worse than drugs") that only feeds the ego and the scapegoating of the other idiot commenters on that blog.

WoW will not become a problem for you unless you are depressed, have some mental-hangups or an addictive personality/behaviour. This is reminiscent of the D&D debacle during the 80s where parents (mostly conservative christians) thought D&D did everything from causing you to join satan's army to commit suicide -- when in reality it was the kids that were fucked up and not the game.

[Kevincheese]

Yeah, but a topic like that doesn't FIT on an mmo forum :P

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by keflex

I was the one who originally posted the link to these forums on your blog.

Thanks very much for doing so, I learned quite a bit from visiting this board on the alternative viewpoints, and many of them changed my own perspective on the game and my friend's post. I think you guys are right on regarding some things I didn't even consider.

Originally Posted by keflex

And enough of these "WoW ruins your life" "WoW doesn't have to ruin your life" bullshit topics on slashdot. You should make a topic that addresses the *REAL* matter at hand: "Should people with addictive behaviours be more careful in their activities?". The obvious answer is yes. Your friend got addicted to WoW, let his life crash and burn and then has the gall to do a write-up on the effects it had on his life. All with massive amounts of hyperbole ("WoW is worse than drugs") that only feeds the ego and the scapegoating of the other idiot commenters on that blog.

There's no question that some of the comments are head scratchingly odd, but I can't believe that it is a bad thing to have the avenues of discussion open. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic about everyone's ability to "get along" or at least *understand* the different perspectives, even if they don't necessarily agree.

However, if you wanted to write something up on what you suggest is the "real" matter at hand, I'd be more than willing to post it up there.

Originally Posted by keflex

WoW will not become a problem for you unless you are depressed, have some mental-hangups or an addictive personality/behaviour. This is reminiscent of the D&D debacle during the 80s where parents (mostly conservative christians) thought D&D did everything from causing you to join satan's army to commit suicide -- when in reality it was the kids that were fucked up and not the game.

As someone who plays D&D/tabletop RPGs on a weekly basis, I remember this well, and it is another excellent point.

I'm sorry if it appears that I am looking for some kind of "internet fame" here. I did not submit the original post to digg (although I admit I dugg it when I saw it there), nor did I submit it to slashdot. I DID submit the follow up to digg and slashdot, however, out of respect for another point of view, mostly out of horror over the idea that people thought I/we were trying to paint a picture of WoW as some kind of horrible phenomenon stealing the lives of children and eating babies. We weren't, but at this point people are going to believe what they want to believe, and that's 100% their right to do so... and as some people here have pointed out, if you focus *solely* on a couple of the statements made in the original post instead of reading it as a whole, I can see where people would get that impression.

If nothing else, I have learned a very interesting lesson about author's intent: although I did not write the post, I have a pretty good idea what the author meant by it. But 100 different people are going to bring 100 different viewpoints to the table before they read the first word of anything, and their reaction is going to be colored by it.

[Reolien01]

Make an article on slashdot about how FoH > all and it will be forgiven.

[Elerion]

I guess he just sucks. I racked up 60 days /played in the first year, was an officer in an actual world known guild (RP, lol), and still managed to be a top performer in school, go out partying twice a week, keep my non-gaming girlfriend and maintain a large group of good friends - none of which play. Someone needs to teach the guy to manage his time.

[Kaylena]

Originally Posted by robustyoungsoul

There was definitely a point there where he was not having fun, however, and yet he foolishly KEPT PLAYING. I think it is this that he was speaking about.

Yeah but that's more of a self-esteem issue than it is a self-control issue. He kept playing even though he hated being there. That tells me that he loved the ego lift the game gave him even though he didn't love the game anymore. As you said, there was once a time he was happily playing, probably when he was thinner and had friends.

Then he looked in the mirror one day and the shock of what he saw put his self-esteem right back at an all time low. Now he's grinding to correct that but he's still grinding. Get it?

There's a problem here that goes much deeper then World of Warcraft and that's probably why you see the reaction here that you do.

[Old Man Potter]

Anyone who dares even hint that a MMO like WoW could be addictive on hardcore raiding guild's website is like going into the lion's den and expecting not to get mauled. It would be akin to Nancy Reagan visiting a crack house and shouting "Just say NO to drugs!" and expecting the addicts to wake up from their narcotic euphoria and reform their behavior.

It's pointless trying to convince an addict in denial that he is addicted or that addicition to a "game" is even possible. That is true especially on these forums where thoughtful ideas and intelligent posts even on a good day are routinely flamed and smeared with the typical excrement that comes from the mouths of the average forum poster these days. Dare to disagree or hold a slightly unpopular opinion and the know-it-all groupthink squad (the same handful of people) starts to pile on with their unfunny one liners. Debate about a serious issue such as addiction on forums like these is entirely pointless. We have more important things to debate here like hunter DPS, purple epics and if warriors are getting shafted in the BCE.

[Kaylena]

Originally Posted by Old Man Potter

Anyone who dares even hint that a MMO like WoW could be addictive on hardcore raiding guild's website is like going into the lion's den and expecting not to get mauled. It would be akin to Nancy Reagan visiting a crack house and shouting "Just say NO to drugs!" and expecting the addicts to wake up from their narcotic euphoria and reform their behavior.

It's pointless trying to convince an addict in denial that he is addicted or that addicition to a "game" is even possible. That is true especially on these forums where thoughtful ideas and intelligent posts even on a good day are routinely flamed and smeared with the typical excrement that comes from the mouths of the average forum poster these days. Dare to disagree or hold a slightly unpopular opinion and the know-it-all groupthink squad (the same handful of people) starts to pile on with their unfunny one liners. Debate about a serious issue such as addiction on forums like these is entirely pointless. We have more important things to debate here like hunter DPS, purple epics and if warriors are getting shafted in the BCE.

addiction -

–noun the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

Now explain to me where quitting WoW causes severe trauma and maybe I'll agree with you that it's an addicition. Until then, I see those with a problem (where they hate to play yet do it anyway) as having a self-esteem issue that needs resolving before quitting WoW is going to help them.

I don't believe WoW caused their insecurities. They had those before they loaded up the game. Quitting the game maybe only led them to appreciate what they had in the first place.

[redjunkopera]

Originally Posted by Hex

Wait, what?

You play WoW while you are on a treadmill?

I ... don't know what to say.

Mind is boggled.

For EQ2 tradeskills I had the wireless mouse rigged up so that all I had to do was click twice to start and continue crafting. Then I could go on the eliptical or lift while I watched TV... made it relatively painless to work out 2-3 hours a day seven days a week.

As for addiction... go to AA, go to NA and talk about how your video game addiction has ruined your life.

[Mist]

Its not an addiction. Obsessive compulsive behavior, probably. But not an addiction. Someday you will get bored of WoW and quit, and that's it, you won't have any withdrawals because you're done with the game. You can't just get bored of crack or alcohol and quit.

[AladainAF]

I am in a 4-day a week raiding guild in EQ, furthest in progression on my server, and constantly farm stuff on days I'm not raiding, and still manage to hold a well paid full time job, and balance family.

I really don't understand the whole "wrecking lives" crap. Personally, I think that if you play a game so much it does wreck your life, than your life deserved to be wrecked and in shambles to begin with, and hopefully, something will happen that will cause you to be removed from the gene pool, and take away your miserable existance.

Priorities are yourself/family, job/work, and hobbies. Pretty simple, and not too complicated to figure out.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

I am in a 4-day a week raiding guild in EQ, furthest in progression on my server, and constantly farm stuff on days I'm not raiding, and still manage to hold a well paid full time job, and balance family.

I really don't understand the whole "wrecking lives" crap. Personally, I think that if you play a game so much it does wreck your life, than your life deserved to be wrecked and in shambles to begin with, and hopefully, something will happen that will cause you to be removed from the gene pool, and take away your miserable existance.

Priorities are yourself/family, job/work, and hobbies. Pretty simple, and not too complicated to figure out.

I tend to agree, but I'd just like to ask.. hows the math work on this?

Figure there's 24 hours in each weekday. Working 8 of that, so 16 hours. Figure some time getting dressed/driving to and from work and lunch and yadda yadda and lets say thats 2 hours. 14. Lets say you don't sleep much, and you only sleep 6 hours. We're down to 8 hours. You gotta eat 2 meals a day, and maybe you cook now and then so thats 2 hours. Figure 6 hours left out of required activities each day. You raid 4 days a week, so at least 2 of these are on weekdays. Do you have kids? Is your wife herself quite busy with hobbies and thus okay with you spending your time alone on vent/TS, inaccessible for hours on end?

I still play quite alot I just can't make the 7pm-12am 5 hour raids that all the single/college student people hit with no issue, family obligations prevent it.

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Cad

Figure there's 24 hours in each weekday. Working 8 of that, so 16 hours. Figure some time getting dressed/driving to and from work and lunch and yadda yadda and lets say thats 2 hours. 14. Lets say you don't sleep much, and you only sleep 6 hours. We're down to 8 hours. You gotta eat 2 meals a day, and maybe you cook now and then so thats 2 hours. Figure 6 hours left out of required activities each day. You raid 4 days a week, so at least 2 of these are on weekdays. Do you have kids? Is your wife herself quite busy with hobbies and thus okay with you spending your time alone on vent/TS, inaccessible for hours on end?

Theres 24 hours per day. I sleep on average of 5 hours per weekday from midnight to 5ish (19). I get a full 8-9 on weekends however. I work 8 hours a day, usually eating lunch at my desk, so I dont take a lunch break usually (11). Takes me an hour to get to work from the moment I wake up, as I live 4 miles from work in a low-traffic area (10). Cooking usually takes 30ish minutes depending on what I make. Weekends are usually much more, but during the week, I'd say 30 minutes, but we'll put an hour just in case as I love to cook (9). I also own a house, so I'll go ahead and factor an hour for days I have to mow the lawn/yard work, or cleaning up around the house (8).

So at this point I have 8 hours left for.. whatever.

I dont use vent or any voice software -- I'm a traditional EQ player. I don't have a wife, or kids, but do have a girlfriend. She knows how it is, and how it will be. I can understand there being issues with EXISTING marriages/families (And its the players responsibility to put family first), but for folks like me, I can simply say "Here is one thing that I will not compromise on" and then she gets one thing that she wont compromise on either, in other words, she gets to tell me how it is and how it will be too. Theres no point to lie and say "I never play games but 1 hour a week!" because I want some pussy. Brutal honesty, and that way if you get married, and she bitches about my gaming habit, I'm on record with her knowing that I wont compromise on it. So far so good, we both live up to our ends of the bargain, and honestly, shes watching me play more and more with interest so maybe I'll get her on EQ

When I said balance family, I should have clarified. My dad lives 200 miles away, mom lives 400, brother lives 200. I try to pay dad a visit per month, brother every other month, and mom twice a year. Also includes spending quality time with the woman. Didn't mean to imply that I have lots of kids, etc.

I still play quite alot I just can't make the 7pm-12am 5 hour raids that all the single/college student people hit with no issue, family obligations prevent it.

We usually raid 6pm - 10pm Wed/Fri, 3pm to 8pm Sat/Sun. Sometimes we'll raid later, but its more the exception than the rule. Nothing wrong with taking days off, if necessary. Its not like you have to attend 100% of raids, though its quite possible with my schedule. I can understand if you have 2...3.. 4 kids in an existing marriage that ANY gaming can cause problems, not just MMOs.

[Nazbuk]

Originally Posted by Wodin

With the advent of server transfers, it doesn't matter if you burn half your guild out every dungeon. There are always people willing to pony up to be among the best. From our rather unique perspective it can be very frustrating at times, but it definitely raised the overall player quality in the uberguilds that chose to recruit.

And yes, 70% nonburnout is way way better than a 99% burnout. About midway through Naxx we started worrying about our people who are too hardcore and taking some preventative measures to avoid burnout. Yes, progression has probably suffered because of it. We're probably going to end up the third US horde guild to kill the last couple bits of Naxx, and we're probably going to be ~30th worldwide as opposed to the top 10s we pulled on everything prior. *shrug* In the end it's still a game, still fun, and that's what's important.

Ack! No cross server recruiting anymore. The queue times on Mal'ganis are bad enough.