/. discovers MMOs can be addicting

[Gahid]

I call bullshit

edit: on the grounds of his user name

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by Gauss

I think he mentioned he actually had a 9-5 job. Still, 70 days /played is pretty light for a person in a so-called world class guild (btw there are no well-known RP guilds so I know he's full of shit with his story). I know many people who were 100 days or more on Nov 23, 2005, including myself probably. The guy is just a puss who thinks he should be languishing some other way than playing a video game. Maybe becoming a raging alcoholic or weight lifting 30 hours a week would be more socially acceptable to him so he wouldn't be weeping all over his damned computer screen as he tries to convey how his addiction to x ruined his life.

I'm glad you mentioned this because I wanted to talk about this point.

One of the commentors mentioned that they were young and had no family or spouse to care for, and were in a working situation where they only had to work a few hours a week. With their free time they played dozens and dozens of hours a week of WoW.

That seems to me like a perfectly legitimate use of free time. As long as no one else is depending on you, who cares what you do to entertain yourself?

I think the problem is relative. If someone only has 30 free hours a week to spend time with their family and they spend 25 of it on WoW, I'd call that a problem. But if they've got 100 hours free, well, spending a quarter of it relaxing and playing a game really isn't a big deal... after all, it's no different than taking some time to yourself to watch TV or read a book or do whatever.

So I'm thinking that the question of time /played is a relative one. Also, in his case he had been playing for only a year.

As for the guild in question, it was not an RP guild, it was a guild on an RP server that became a raid guild. I have no idea what world class means, and just based on anecdotal evidence I'm pretty sure the RP servers would not be able to compete with the skill level of folks on other types of server.

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by Gahid

I call bullshit

edit: on the grounds of his user name

No, seriously, I'm the guy with the blog (not the guy who wrote the article though).

Actually... I'm not sure how I can prove that though?

[Antarius]

The comment I have the most problem with is your statement claiming the "irrevocable damage" caused by your time playing World of Warcraft.

Gained some weight? Go work out.
Didn't drink party enough? Go find some friends and get drunk.
Flunked some college classes? Enroll again.

The arguement that you've lost time that you'll "never get back" is invalidated by the fact that you were having fun while you were playing the game. If you enjoyed the time hanging out with the people in your guild, then it was time well spent. Hell, your friend even met a chick through the game that he's banging and evidently she's alot better than the other hoes he was with when he was DJ'ing, and hung out and evidently had a good time with some other guildmates.

The claim that before he was "doing something" every night of the week before he started playin MMOs, is viewed cynically by people who have been playing MMOs on and off for the past seven years, and consider logging on and raiding with people they consider friends as "doing something.

Other people may take offense at your treatment of buying gold, since they are the ones most likely working in well-paying jobs, or with families, so they view their time as more important than alot of people. They want to insure that the time playing is spent doing things that THEY find enjoyable, namely raiding, which doesn't involve farming.

I think the level of response you have received is due to the disbelief at how sheltered a life you have appeared to live, many of the people, myself included, have been playing the same type of game as WoW since 1999.

Like I said in my original post, I hate players like you, you make things more difficult on stable players like myself. Your crash and burn are an annoyance. That's why alot of guild leaders purposefully try to screen out unstable people during recruitment. And while I hesitate to speculate on why your friend's new girlfriend (who also plays wow) left him, I'd venture to guess that he appeared like a stable kind of guy when she first met him, but then realized that his life was falling apart and he didn't know the first thing about managing his time.

[Zuuljin]

Nekkid pics or it didnt happen.

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by Antarius

The comment I have the most problem with is your statement claiming the "irrevocable damage" caused by your time playing World of Warcraft.

Gained some weight? Go work out.
Didn't drink party enough? Go find some friends and get drunk.
Flunked some college classes? Enroll again.

Point conceded. None of that "damage" is "irrevocable".

I admit though that I was surprised at some of the other comments from folks who did suffer something a bit closer to "irrevocable" damage when it came to things like estranged family members and the like. Some good counseling would probably help fix this though (and a healthy dose of "take some responsibility for yourself"), so again this is not "irrevocable".

Like I said, point conceded.

Originally Posted by Antarius

The arguement that you've lost time that you'll "never get back" is invalidated by the fact that you were having fun while you were playing the game. If you enjoyed the time hanging out with the people in your guild, then it was time well spent. Hell, your friend even met a chick through the game that he's banging and evidently she's alot better than the other hoes he was with when he was DJ'ing, and hung out and evidently had a good time with some other guildmates.

Agreed. For a long time he clearly was having fun. And the gal in question is definitely a very cool person who has her head on straight when it comes to the game.

There was definitely a point there where he was not having fun, however, and yet he foolishly KEPT PLAYING. I think it is this that he was speaking about.

Originally Posted by Antarius

The claim that before he was "doing something" every night of the week before he started playin MMOs, is viewed cynically by people who have been playing MMOs on and off for the past seven years, and consider logging on and raiding with people they consider friends as "doing something.

Another point conceded. What one does with their free time is, as always, their business and as long as they're enjoying themselves and not hurting anyone, they shouldn't have to explain themselves.

Originally Posted by Antarius

Other people may take offense at your treatment of buying gold, since they are the ones most likely working in well-paying jobs, or with families, so they view their time as more important than alot of people. They want to insure that the time playing is spent doing things that THEY find enjoyable, namely raiding, which doesn't involve farming.

I actually had to reread the post to find this part. When the people in question are as you describe them (folks with spare dough or who want to spend time with their families instead of tasks they deem menial in the game), then yes, go for it. But like anything this can be taken to an extreme degree... when you're spending the family's vacation money to get somebody to farm for you, I'd call that a little silly.

Originally Posted by Antarius

I think the level of response you have received is due to the disbelief at how sheltered a life you have appeared to live, many of the people, myself included, have been playing the same type of game as WoW since 1999.

Okay, I can at least understand this then. But those of us like myself who never played an MMO before WoW outnumber those of you that have, so I don't think this is very fair.

Originally Posted by Antarius

Like I said in my original post, I hate players like you, you make things more difficult on stable players like myself. Your crash and burn are an annoyance. That's why alot of guild leaders purposefully try to screen out unstable people during recruitment. And while I hesitate to speculate on why your friend's new girlfriend (who also plays wow) left him, I'd venture to guess that he appeared like a stable kind of guy when she first met him, but then realized that his life was falling apart and he didn't know the first thing about managing his time.

This is actually a totally new perspective on the issue that I am just now starting to realize... "burnout" players are obviously a well known phenomenon for experienced MMOers like yourselves. If you could elaborate further on how this impacts guild dynamics, I would be very interested to hear it.

[Bixxby]

Imagine being on a sports team where your players randomly retire/die/dissapear every couple weeks/months and that they have to be replaced and retrained every time.

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by Bixxby

Imagine being on a sports team where your players randomly retire/die/dissapear every couple weeks/months and that they have to be replaced and retrained every time.

Eek.

So what you've got on one hand are players that are capable of maintaining the balance and have the experience/gear necessary to take on endgame content.

But you need numbers.

So on the other hand you have players with the aforementioned "addictive behavior" (aka "lack of self control"), but you need them for as long as you can keep them so those who haven't lost their perspective can do the content they enjoy.

Is that a fair assessment?

[Antarius]

No, the fairer assessment would be, you want to recruit quality, stable players to your guild that are truthful and honest and want to progress with the guild over the next several years.

A small number of people, however, lie on their applications about the stablity of their home life and how much time they want to AND are ABLE to devote to the game. People like yourself and your friend. You misrepresented to your guild how much of an asset you'd be to their team. Instead of helping the guild, you ended up setting them back in progresss. Now they have to recruit someone else and hopefully they don't flake out on them like you and your friend did.

You have players that are capable of maintaining the balance and have the experience and gear necessary to take on endgame content. And then you have people who claim they do, but don't. I distrust anyone that puts on their application to a guild that says they play 35 hours a week or more because of people like yourself.

We need stable numbers, not flakey here one week, gone the next week players. A team only works as well as it's weakest member.

edit: And I almost forgot to answer your question about buying gold, when 1000 gold cost about 60 bucks, you would be pretty damned stupid NOT to have spent the money on buying it. The way I justify it is, I could have spent 3 hours working at my job to earn that money, and 22 hours hanging out with my friends/spending time with my family and continued raiding. Or I could have spent 25 hours in game farming for gold off solo somewhere. I don't know of anyone that takes a family vaction on 60 bucks anyways, it costs a helluva lot more than that.

[Zarcath]

I haven't read the article. I'm going to address the WoW compared to drugs.

Anyone can become addicted to anything. It's a personality defect/trait. It's only labeled an addiction if it's harmful (addicted to helping the homeless = good). Comparing an addiction to WoW and an addiction to drugs works on a base level, the person simply doesn't know how to stop and/or doesn't want to admit they have a problem. I'm sure you'll see similiar traits between WoW "addicts" and drug addicts. I'm sure you'd even find similiar traits to people addicted to Icee's or Candy Corn or Steak.

It's bullshit. Any addiction that is not induced on a chemical level (drugs, nicotince, etc) is the person's own fault. I don't understand the need to label things as good or bad. If this person enjoyed playing WoW so much , maybe that's just the type of person he is. You think everyone in the world is suited to 9-5 jobs with a stable home life? I'm sure religion or society might want you to think so but it's a farce.

I also don't understand your need to validate your "friends" story. As mentioned there are tons of people who go through this, I'm sure everyone on this board has gone through a bad period of gaming life. You have to know how to balance your real-life responsibilities and your gaming. You have a responsibility to your guild as well. If you're having problems that inhibits your ability to raid then you're bringing them down. You think a guild leader wants a head case raiding with them? Don't act like they're being forced to play WoW.

As a friend YOU should have taken on the responsibility of HELPING your friend. Why is a story needed? Why are you seeking attention for your friend? Who gives a shit? Why don't you help your friend out, pat yourself on the back and gtfo.

[Cantatus]

Being such a crowded alliance had advantages for us, in that if someone disappeared, it wasn't a huge deal. In fact, "real life" was always an acceptable excuse for not being around to raid. The people that frustrated us far more were the ones that would gear up and join a "more uber" alliance. Personally, I was glad our alliance wasn'

But, I can definitely understand the other side as well. Main tank and Clerics were never anything we had an unlimited supply of, so while a Necromancer or Ranger disappearing wasn't a huge deal, we definitely did have times where certain people not being on meant no raid for us, especially when PoP came out.

As far as the addiction thing goes, sure, people can get addicted to MMOGs. People can get addicted to anything. I just think the term "addiction" is used far too readily when it comes to computers though. I just heard something on Headline News about how "1 in 8 Americans" are addicted to the internet because they'd find it difficult to not use the internet for days at a time. There's a difference between being "addicted" to something and having a "dependance" on it. Not surprising that someone like a stock broker or your average business person couldn't live without the internet for a few days. Our culture has become very infused with the internet. Doesn't mean all these people are addicted, but that seems to be the conclusion the media jumps to so readily.

The alternative for me, let's see:

1. television - DUH just as much of a waste of time if not more
2. bars - im sure im just missing out on a ton of hangovers, blackouts, and stds. Sounds awesome(sarcasm)
3. reading - LOL it's the 21st century
4. writing - see above
5. Other Hobby - guitars, kirate, etc. uhh same thing as video games just as time consuming and personally not as fun
6. weight lifting - oh wait already do that cause at most takes one hour a day
7. I could keep this list going forever but there is really only one thing that would be a worthy alternative -- Religion

While the above post makes me weep for humanity, he does have a point.

[Zarcath]

What's wrong with my post?

[Cantatus]

The post I quoted, not your post.

[Lorrac]

I personally have a lot to thank EQ for. I suffered (now under control) from extremely impulsive behaviour and would have ended a drunkard like half my family (strangely enough, they've all managed to keep jobs/family even through their worst alcoholic stages).

Also, being well acquited (sp?) with alcoholic addiction I can tell you that this supposed mmo addiction is a joke in comparison.

[robustyoungsoul]

Originally Posted by Zarcath

I also don't understand your need to validate your "friends" story. As mentioned there are tons of people who go through this, I'm sure everyone on this board has gone through a bad period of gaming life. You have to know how to balance your real-life responsibilities and your gaming. You have a responsibility to your guild as well. If you're having problems that inhibits your ability to raid then you're bringing them down. You think a guild leader wants a head case raiding with them? Don't act like they're being forced to play WoW.

As a friend YOU should have taken on the responsibility of HELPING your friend. Why is a story needed? Why are you seeking attention for your friend? Who gives a shit? Why don't you help your friend out, pat yourself on the back and gtfo.

If I was looking to validate the story, I wouldn't have started here that's for sure.

What I'm looking for really is the other story that I think needs equal attention: that of the gamer who could has a "balanced" lifestyle (a good point was made in that societal norms are not necessarily a good barometer of this), knows how to keep his gaming under control, but still draws a lot of positive things from the pasttime. In particular I want to hear about this as it relates specifically to WoW, if only because WoW is the topic du jour.

One thing I would think is a positive of WoW is teamwork. Someone learning to work with others on a game would certainly be able to use those skills at anything else requiring the help of others.