Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Tolanin]

majority of the shit here is just stupid.. whining retards on both sides of this arguement crying about how the game will suck/own and why. Seriously this thread is fkin retarded.

No EQ2s designers arent gonna come to some moral crisis if they work on VG to try and make it better than EQ2, this isnt some kind of retarded soap opera.

No VG isnt a failure of shadowbane or horizons proportions.. how anyone can even say that knowing how bad SB/horizons were is beyond me, fuck all VG would have to do to beat them is run and only hard crash once every other hour. No its not the second coming either. Yes you need TLC in a game with no instances, and making all the shit no drop is even gayer... farming for your alt is not needed, you can use lvl 50 gear on a lvl 1 already. I really dont know what there is left to discuss about this game, everyone with a clue already knows its not that bad but not that good either.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Lots of NDA breaking shit dropped

Honesty. Sigil? Be honest with your fans, they will be more apt to forgive and accept your limitations instead of rejecting your lies.

Since I'm not in the Beta I can shill for Brad & co. freely.

Let me point out that all your quotes boil down to three complaints (ignoring stupid ones like no mounted combat -- where Sigil is on record as saying its delayed for release but will be put in the game).

1. Lack of content or lack of polish on existing content.
2. Not hardcore enough.
3. BOE/TLC complaint

Since even people who like the game agree with point #1 -- I suspect it is highly likely to be true (approaching 100%) - so lets hope Sigil (with a little help from SoE) can get the content in there in time and, more importantly, polish the content it has.

As to point #2 -- I find most of the complaints stupid. You doin't like the mini-map. Turn it off. You're upset that VG has newbie quests that give you cool armor by lvl 8 -- don't do the quest.

As to point #3. Never played on FV but I'm not a fan of BOE/BOP or the idea of TLC. I like the ability to hand down items and I think one of WoWs weakest aspects was the incredible amount of BoE/BoP items.

Only a very few items should be BoP: epic quest rewards and the like.
I'm not sure any item should ever be BoE (Edit: I take this back the very high-end crafted items could be BoE).

As to TLC--while I like the image of the small orc village hiding all its good stuff when Conan the destroyer (who's wiped out three previous generations of the village) is sighted heading their way--I still fail to see the necessity of it.

Puting it in just to clear out gold-farming ends up affecting the real player base much more than gold-farmers. Puting it in to make sure high-level toons aren't camping low-level areas and cock-blocking advancement of low-level toons is only necessary if there isn't enough content (but see #1 above).

Now Sigil/Brad has indicated that they're trying some modifications of the FV TLC -- as I'm not in Beta I have no idea if the mods make it more or even less worthy. I can imagine a TLC that is less annoying then the one described -- for example a law_of_diminishing_returns TLC. Everytime you kill a mob that falls under TLC you have less and less a chance of it dropping whatever it is that drops (the orc village hiding items scenario) -- however the chance never goes to zero. Such a TLC bothers me much less than the low-level mob = no loot scenario.

[The Hiram Key]

Can someone dig up the Brad quote about how "our partnership with SOE is just to publish the game and for network infrastructure, they will have no hand in designing the game or working on content blah blah blah blah so stop your worrying right now blah blah blah blah "?

Because this thread needs even more examples of developer double talk, backtracking, compromising, and in some cases, out right dishonesty to give it that tinge of "ahhhhh".

[Tolanin]

The TLC arguement is stupid, the only thing people ever say is there should be more content so it doesnt get camped by farming high lvls. Thats such a dumb arguement, its really just not possible to have so much that its not a problem.. and then theirs the farmers too.. Really its a necessary thing, like it not, without instances not having tlc is gay. It ends up ruining the game. Already VG is the most twink friendly game to come out since EQ. BOE is not even in game anymore.

[The Hiram Key]

Oh hell, this is so easy, even a caveman can do it.

Vanguard Forums - View Single Post - Sigil & SOE FAQ

Will SOE influence Vanguard’s gameplay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McQuaid - CEO, Sigil Games Online

SoE cannot touch the gameplay.

What we have done is become the publishers of our own game. We now have even more control and authority over Vanguard, how it is made, how it is designed, and how it is marketed than we ever had with Microsoft.

I realize there are lots of different feelings about SOE and their games. But whatever those feelings, the fact of the matter is that they know operations and distribution. They will make sure our beta runs the way it needs to, that our game is widely marketed, and that our game is available all over, in all channels.

That is SOE's role in this new partnership with them. Sigil remains Sigil, able to focus now moreso on what we do best -- design, implement, conduct betas, build community, and market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McQuaid - CEO, Sigil Games Online
Vanguard will not leave the dream and visions of Sigil and its current developers. I give you my word. And this move insures that the above remains true by giving us total authority over the design of the game, community, customer service, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smedley - President, SOE
To put your mind at ease.. this is Sigil's game and it's staying that way. Brad and the Sigil team have done a phenomenal job.. they don't need any gameplay advice.

Now you could argue (probably somewhat successfully) that simply "loaning" staff from one game to another, does not equal giving advice, steering the direction of the game, or even altering the game more to SOE's liking.

I submit that it's highly doubtful that these are just mindless robots being loaned out, who will draw and code on demand, to specifications as deemed by Sigil. I am sure they are intelligent people who have plenty of experience on their own, and I am doubly sure that at some point, they will offer solutions, ideas, create content, flesh out quests, etc etc and Sigil will accept that input, and in many cases include it in the game.

I agree, this does not amount to creative control (so my comparrison is a bit of a stretch) but it does amount (in it's most basic form) to outside (non-Sigil) influence over the development of the game.

Much like Koster in developing SWG brought alot of his UO (think it was UO no ?) background with him, including ideas, concepts and mechanics, so will these staffers bring their mojo from EQ2 to VG.

To deny this connection is to demonstrate your lack of connection with logic and reality

[Gnome Eater]

Regardless of how people feel about Vanguard, they should realize they signed an NDA and have a moral and legal obligation to follow it.

[Tolanin]

Im just gonna save myself a ton of time and call your arguement retarded right off.

Your arguement is retarded, hiram.

[Erie]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

Im just gonna save myself a ton of time and call your arguement retarded right off.

Your arguement is retarded, hiram.

QFT, complain about it being incomplete or about them getting help to complete it. Can't win either way, you'll complain no matter what. What are you doing following Vanguard so closely again?

[r.gun]

He never once said SOE designers wouldn't touch the game, he just said the Sigil still retains all authority over the development. Meaning, if an SOE designer comes in to help, they are under Sigil rules now, not SOE.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally Posted by tad10

Since I'm not in the Beta I can shill for Brad & co. freely.

Let me point out that all your quotes boil down to three complaints (ignoring stupid ones like no mounted combat -- where Sigil is on record as saying its delayed for release but will be put in the game).

1. Lack of content or lack of polish on existing content.
2. Not hardcore enough.
3. BOE/TLC complaint

Forgot number 4

4. Just plain not fun.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

I submit that it's highly doubtful that these are just mindless robots being loaned out, who will draw and code on demand, to specifications as deemed by Sigil. I am sure they are intelligent people who have plenty of experience on their own, and I am doubly sure that at some point, they will offer solutions, ideas, create content, flesh out quests, etc etc and Sigil will accept that input, and in many cases include it in the game.

Given that folks on those board have given a thumb's up to EOF -- I really don't see the problem.

Originally Posted by Tolanin

Really its a necessary thing, like it not, without instances not having tlc is gay. It ends up ruining the game. Already VG is the most twink friendly game to come out since EQ. BOE is not even in game anymore.

BOE was in it last time I read any of Brad's public comments. But I'm not in Beta so maybe things have changed.

Color me dubious with respect to no-TLC ruining the game. EQ survived w/o it for quite some time. That being said and as already noted -- I don't object to a limited form of TLC: Diminishing returns or similiar.

Alternatively, one of my favorite ideas (and I think someone else said it first aeons ago) was some kind of trigger -- kill enough low-level guys and a couple of nasy high-levels spawn who only go after the high-level in the area and then de-spawn (and of course this idea has its own problems as well).

[xmod2]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

Regardless of how people feel about Vanguard, they should realize they signed an NDA and have a moral and legal obligation to follow it.

I don't see how morality comes into this at all (and legality is questionable). People who complain about NDA breaking are always the ones who feel the opposite as the person breaking the NDA (or don't want their hopes of the game being good to be dashed). I'm sure if someone was on the forums going OH MAN THIS VANGUARD GAME IS FUCKING CRAZY. You wouldn't be telling him how immoral he is for breaking the NDA.

[Dumar]

when vanguard is released, how many games will be on the all station pass?

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Erie

QFT, complain about it being incomplete or about them getting help to complete it. Can't win either way, you'll complain no matter what. What are you doing following Vanguard so closely again?

I am complaining about neither, just pointing out what to me at least, is a glaring contradiction in statements from Brad. It's pretty well known that those at the tippity top of a company, have little if anything to do with whats going on at ground level. I took Brads stance about SOE to mean, nobody from SOE is going to have a hand in developing the game.

This no longer seems to be the case. Maybe the FAQ needs to be updated, maybe some of you need to stop accepting everything a dev says as "the word of god eternal", and maybe being jaded really means, in tune what whats really going on.

More power to them, they obviously need the help and not just to finish the game either. But lets at least be honest about who is developing the game now.

I follow Vanguard closely much in the way you rubber neck at an accident scene on the highway. I am repulsed by the event, but I am far too facinated by said event to pull my eyes away.

A train wreck in progress is a good analogy.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

More power to them, they obviously need the help and not just to finish the game either. But lets at least be honest about who is developing the game now.

Is this like a "Who's buried in Grant's Tomb" question?

Secondment of content designers and artists from SOE to Sigil does not suddenly mean that SOE is developing the game and to suggest such is just pure bias.