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[Zehn - Vhex]

Trivialized all that effort? If you hadn't figured out how to run from Freeport to Qeynos by the time PoP rolled around you were an idiot. And if you're just pissed at all the young whippersnappers who didn't have to go download maps and print them out then that makes you a douche.

Fuck, did you whine when they upped the level cap from 50 to 60 and trivialized guk? OH SHIT ALL THAT EFFORT OUT TEH WINDOW.

You got to explore EQ old world zones while they were still relatively viable, take comfort in that. The first time you run from point A -> point B is fun and adventure. After that it's travel and travel is fucking boring.

[theawddone]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You got to explore EQ old world zones while they were still relatively viable, take comfort in that. The first time you run from point A -> point B is fun and adventure. After that it's travel and travel is fucking boring.

I wish more people would realize this...

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

I can assure you, speaking in terms of bandwidth alone, the cost is far from zero. They dont have to invent the wheel, granted, but its going to cost them plenty to pump this game out.

PS: There is noone else who can or will do it at this point, unless Richard Branson or maybe Warren Buffet suddenly become MMOG junkies.

Yeah, there are still costs.

I reckon though there would be plenty of people willing to get it out though if smed hit the wrong button and blew SOE up. They might not be able to do it as well(profitwise, not fuckupthegameSOEstyle, no one can touch SOE here), but they would get it out. Hell, I bet even microsoft would be keen to get back in on it. But its all just dreaming, SOE will do the job(hopefully not all over the game).

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by rinthea

if smed hit the wrong button and blew SOE up.

Don't tease.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You got to explore EQ old world zones while they were still relatively viable, take comfort in that. The first time you run from point A -> point B is fun and adventure. After that it's travel and travel is fucking boring.

It's boring because in current MMOs (and likely in future MMOs) its pointless after the initial exploration. Hell, flying in WoW was incredibly cool the first time and became incredibly tedious by time number 3. Travel can be point-full -- take for example the game Elite -- you went from point A to point B to sell items bought at point A at point B to make $$.

I believe that one could make travel point-full in MMOs. But the only way to do that is if there is some gain from traveling as opposed to teleporting. What that gain could be I don't know...

[vynde]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

I dont know about you, but I had a heck of a time getting around in EQ1, having printed out maps of the zones and putting them in binders by continent (don't go there, this was 1999, dial up, and some shitty 64mb ram computer). It took a long, long time for me to learn the paths from one place to another, zone wise, and to learn the zones themselves.

And while it was frustrating at times, it really did make the world more immersive, and there definately was a real sense of accomplishment once I had it all down pat.

What took the bloom off the rose was POK, it trivialized all that effort, and while convenient, it was a huge let down. Adios that right of passage in learning your way around a world without maps in game.

I don't mind either system now, but I do mind when fucktard devs change shit in such a major way so far into the game.

i agree with every word man. most of my fond memories came from when i got lost in some zone and got wtfpwned by some npc. yes i was shocked and i shook my head in worry, but i always got over it soon after (even if i delevelled).

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

The first time you run from point A -> point B is fun and adventure. After that it's travel and travel is fucking boring.

it does depend on your run. i can see running from kelethin to crushbone again and again as tedious, but the long journeys are still fun. and no, i am not pulling that out of my ass because i was on eq last night and ran from surefall to hhk. then again, many of the new zones are empty and void. for some reason i have always loved the classic eq zones because they were full of life

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

someone pissed in my cheerios and stuff

Adding POK trivialized overland travel, and thus trivialized all that effort in "learning the world" (as did the in game map feature). I can assure you Zehn, I had indeed learned how to run from FP to Q long before PoP came out.

My grudge never has been, and never will be with those who follow an easier path then I or anyone else had to travel to get to point A. My grudge is with the devs who for whatever reasons, just cannot resist to make huge, sweeping changes that in effect, sweep the rug out from under you.

A really good example of this was the combat changes to SWG. They could have tweaked it here and there, improved it, added a few things, etc. Instead the threw the whole fucking system out the window and replaced it with something just as shitty (in some peoples opinions, shittier). Why ? Who benefits ?

I don't mind change, change is good and is inevitable. I DO mind change just for the sake of change, to prove your worth or "vision" to your masters, or simply because you have nothing better to do, and as king of the sand box, you can.

I don't think the world would have ended in EQ1 if they didnt add POK. They could have sped up and added more boats, added some type of "air travel" (maybe not), enhanced portal spells, port classes, new or faster mounts etc.

Probably alot easier (read: cheaper) to just add a new hub zone with connections to everywhere, slap some zone change code on it and call it good, then to mess with all those other systems.

It's subjective which is the better way to go, but I can tell you which would be less disruptive, even less disrespectful, or possibly more true/loyal to the spirit of the original game, and it's not Plane of Knowledge.

Devs should learn to be gentle with their creations, and their subscribers.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Devs should learn to be gentle with their creations, and their subscribers.

i wish you told this to smed and all the swg developers before they totally changed the game. i loved that game...

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by vynde

i wish you told this to smed and all the swg developers before they totally changed the game. i loved that game...

Yeah, I liked it too, but scary as it sounds, it was the crafting, harvesting, housing part, not the combat part. I just like organizing things, building something where there is nothing, creating etc.

I don't know how much Smed had to do with that, its been too long to remember who the devs at the time were, or even if Lucas was in on that, but I can definately see Smed looking at the numbers nosediving and sending the "fix this shit pronto yo" memo over.

I am fine if you want to blame him though

[vynde]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Yeah, I liked it too, but scary as it sounds, it was the crafting, harvesting, housing part, not the combat part. I just like organizing things, building something where there is nothing, creating etc.

I don't know how much Smed had to do with that, its been too long to remember who the devs at the time were, or even if Lucas was in on that, but I can definately see Smed looking at the numbers nosediving and sending the "fix this shit pronto yo" memo over.

I am fine if you want to blame him though

i liked being able to take down jedi in thongs. R.I.P MBH

[Zehn - Vhex]

Here, using my incredible mental powers I will picture the run from Qeynos to Freeport in my mind. I'll let you know when the fun starts happening.

Ready?

Go....

...

...

Oh hey a tower...well...nothing going on there...

...

...

okay zoning.

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

Okay done zoning.

Let's see...aim slightly norht of west and hit auto-run. Alrighty.

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

WOAH FUCK A TREE

...

phew, swerved at just the right time.

...

...

...

Fuck this, alt-f4ing to download some porn.

Alright, I'll admit it. Going up the ramp was kinda interesting because by the time you got there you were so mind numbingly bored that it was hard not to accidentally fall off and plummet to your death.

The problem with points of interest is your game has to be relatively niche in order for it to not be exploited to fuck by gold farmers. And even then you'd probably end up with the Baldur's Gate "You have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself" gimic. Let's face it, I want to go from point A to point B. Very rarely am I just running about hoping shit happens.

I believe SW:G tried that and look how awesome that turned out.

The only really 'cool' events you could do would be the extremely rare wtfpwning out of left field. I firmly believe that every 1 in 1000 flights between Orgrimmar and Gadgetzan, Onyxia should randomly come out and just chomp you down in mid flight. Rare enough that when it does happen you're kinda like, "Uh...what? Fuck man." but not so common that flightpaths become some kinda of gamble.

And I'm sure some asshole developer is thinking right now "GENIUS! Just think, mounts could crash, or get attacked in mid-air, and that would add MEANING to travel! And that's what players really want, MEANINGFUL TRAVEL!"

THERE IS NO SUCH GODDAMN THING YOU ASSFUCKS.

Fuck.

Thanks, had to get that off my chest.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

My grudge is with the devs who for whatever reasons, just cannot resist to make huge, sweeping changes that in effect, sweep the rug out from under you.

For the most part I agree. PoK stones were introduced way too rapidly. They were a fairly decent idea, just poorly and hastily implemented. I'm sure I could be quoted even back then as saying that you should have to at least touch the zone marker before you can use the PoK stone.

There was nothing I hated more then those stupid cunts we kept guilding who couldn't figure out how to run from the cobalt scar to NToV and required my porting out there time and again to escort their retarded asses.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Here, using my incredible mental powers I will picture the run from Qeynos to Freeport in my mind. I'll let you know when the fun starts happening..

I did this as a lvl 1 halfling (well Misty Thicket to Qeynos) -- that was exciting travel!

Look, if I they can make 80 days around the world with Jackie Chan mildly interesting they can make travel in MMOs interesting. But it could be the scotch speaking...

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by tad10

I believe that one could make travel point-full in MMOs. But the only way to do that is if there is some gain from traveling as opposed to teleporting. What that gain could be I don't know...

You can just give people money for not teleporting. Trade goods, escorting an NPC. All can result in cash.

You can also have random spawning events along travel roads. Anything from dungeons, to npcs, to monsters, all of which could provide items/consumables that can be balanced to be useful.

The first time you run from point A -> point B is fun and adventure. After that it's travel and travel is fucking boring.

No, travel becomes boring when it becomes monotonous. Traveling from Qeynos to Freeport results in the same fucking scenery/shit every time. That's a design flaw in the game, as in you (game designer) suck at RPG development because your world never changes.

It has absolutely nothing to fucking do with traveling. That's the most short sighted shit I've heard all day.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I believe SW:G tried that and look how awesome that turned out.

The only really 'cool' events you could do would be the extremely rare wtfpwning out of left field. I firmly believe that every 1 in 1000 flights between Orgrimmar and Gadgetzan, Onyxia should randomly come out and just chomp you down in mid flight. Rare enough that when it does happen you're kinda like, "Uh...what? Fuck man." but not so common that flightpaths become some kinda of gamble.

And I'm sure some asshole developer is thinking right now "GENIUS! Just think, mounts could crash, or get attacked in mid-air, and that would add MEANING to travel! And that's what players really want, MEANINGFUL TRAVEL!"

THERE IS NO SUCH GODDAMN THING YOU ASSFUCKS.

Fuck.

Thanks, had to get that off my chest.

swg had some perilous journeys before player housing came in (motherfucking tuskens. ill never forgive them). although after that, yes swg travel was meaningless and boring.

now lets move onto your "simulation". you have to take into consideration your level, class, and faction too. if youre a 70 druid running through there then id expect it to be pretty boring. but imagine if you were a 35 warrior making that run. you have to dodge the wandering npcs and keep your eyes peeled (if you were DE war walking around there you probably will be fucked).

i guess my experiences were different than yours. as i levelled up i explored more and more because that everpresent danger kept fading away. like i said i never hit the max level, so i still got into trouble in some zones.