Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Arden]

Originally Posted by Neric

Obviously a lot has changed since I played the game...

You keep saying that, and it must be true, because based on your list of "must-haves" Vanguard should be your kind of game.

Originally Posted by Neric

- static spawns (maybe the most important one)
As far as I know and as far as I have been able to find out from Brad's postings, people have trouble finding named spawns, because they seem to be roaming with placeholders. Maybe someone knows more about it, but I prefer to camp the Ancient Cyclops in OOT than to look for him in South Ro.

Vanguard has wandering named mobs, Vanguard has static spawn named mobs. Check static spawns off your list. If people have been having trouble finding named spawns it's because EQ Atlas and Allakhazam don't work (yet) for Vanguard, and they are probably the same people who wouldn't have found the static spawns in EQ without help.

Originally Posted by Neric

- unique dungeons
Obviously there are unique dungeons, but there are also 45 modular caves in Thestra alone and looking at their numbers alone it seems that they are supposed to be a huge part of the content. I would replace the 7/45 ratio with 15/0, but that's just me...

You want unique dungeons, and yes, Vanguard has them. Tons of them. I would wager they have probably more than most mmog's have had on launch- cetainly more than EQ, WoW, and EQ2. Yes, there are a plethora of "caves" but these aren't what I even consider dungeons, they are part of the landscape like forests, rivers, fields, etc. Are there a lot of them? Yeah, but you can just avoid them if you don't like them.

Originally Posted by Neric

- no instancing
No instancing in Vanguard is only half the story. There is locked content and it seems they also introduced some sort of mob tagging. There was something in the dev-statement.

There are no instanced zones in Vanguard. That was your complaint right? Easy enough. As far as locked content goes I think you are off there too, unless you know something I don't.

Originally Posted by Neric

- snare/slow/mez/fear
Sure there may be these features, but you can bet they are tuned to be 100% harmless aka worthless. This game is not meant to produce overpowered classes, that's why everyone can essentially do the same. Having to face a mob to cast at it pretty much says it all. Does the Vanguard druid play like the EQ1 druid? Does the Vanguard enchanter play like the EQ1 enchanter? Does the Vanguard necro play like the EQ1 necro? Does any Vanguard class play like an EQ1 class? I guess not! Funny thing is, the Vanguard enchanter plays like the CoH Controller and the Vanguard wizard plays like a DAoC wizard and the Vanguard rogue plays like a DAoC rogue too...but that's another story.

All those features are there bro. Do Vanguard classes play like EQ classes? For the most part no, but I am not sure why they would. After all, Vanguard is not EQ. And besides, just to get this straight, when was the last time you actually played any of these classes?

Originally Posted by Neric

- droppable/tradable items*
No drop, bind on pickup...etc. What did I read about the latest "improvements"?

As far as I know this isn't set yet. I have my own idea of how I think they should approach this, but as of now there is no point in trying to claim it is or isn't a feature of Vanguard (or how big a feature it is), because the fact is it is not determined.

Originally Posted by Neric

- exp penalty for failure
Obviously they have not figured that out either, 2 months prior to release.

??? There is definitely an exp penalty for failure...

Originally Posted by Neric

- major loot was distributed over the whole world and not in one locked area*
This is something I don't know details about and I am sure you won't accept a guess. We will see what sort of key quest you need for the high-end areas once it goes live. I give you another reason why it has to be locked, it's because the content is too easy and they want to prevent it from being solved one month after release.

Once again- ??? Major loot distributed all over high end areas, exactly where it should be. And WTF, how could you possibly claim ignorance about high-end areas and in the same breath claim the content there is too easy, lol?

Originally Posted by Neric

- wizard/druid teleport
- bindspawn
Vanguard has meaningful travel instead, i know...

I dunno what you mean by bindspawn, but I hope they put teleport spells in as well. I really liked that feature in EQ, but then this is a very different world, and it may not fit as well, or there may be better alternatives- I don't know yet. But honestly I'm not going to cry if they don't have port spells.

It's funny, Neric you seem like a pretty intelligent guy, and we actually agree on a lot of principles. That's why it kills me that you are so waaaaaay off with your info. If you KNOW your info is both old and only half complete why are you posting to talk shit? Seriously?

I could give a fuck less about changing your opinion, because, to be honest, it sounds like what you really want is a trip back to the glory days of old EQ. In a lot of ways I want that too, but I certainly know how to separate that from my analysis of current games.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Dis

I am still confused as to why Sony is releasing a product that will hurt Everquest 1/2 more than it will hurt World of Warcraft, but that is an entirely different thread I suppose.

Got me. Maybe its the ol' Serbian jew double bluff? Seriously -- EQ is on the long spiral downward -- SoE has milked and milked and milked that cow and I'd guess they figure the cow has only a couple of years left -- better to transition to an SoE property than a non-SoE property. You also have to assume that anyone from EQ who would be willing to move to EQ2 would have done so already -- so you have a base of players you want to transition but who aren't willing to transition to a current property.

As to pre-ordering for early access -- I didn't guess any specific sales numbers but I assumed enough sales and insufficient servers to cause severe lag and spawn camping in all newbie areas. While there is a certain charm to 300 almost identical halflings in the mysty thicket and while I regret being too drunk to take what might have been an epic screenshot -- it isn't something I want to experience again.

Edit: with reference to Arden's post immediately above -- I think the mob-tagging thing Neric was talking about is a comment (somewhere in the official FAQ or the silky venom FAQ) that there is some type of anti-camping code/group tagging for certain quest mobs. I'm not going to look for it in the faq but IIRC it was something to the effect that certain mobs get triggered by a group -- group is only ones who can get xp from killing mob.

[Zuuljin]

Originally Posted by Dis

I am still confused as to why Sony is releasing a product that will hurt Everquest 1/2 more than it will hurt World of Warcraft, but that is an entirely different thread I suppose.

Perhaps because their hoping everyone who just plays EQ1 or just plays EQ2, will subscribe to the all-access-pass so that they can play Vanguard and the others. That way your actually paying for both,although not as much as each seperatly, which still gives them more money, but gives you a "deal" on playing multiple MMO's. Honestly the station pass is a really good idea. Just imagine that instead of having to sub for multiple MMO's, possibly costing 50+ a month just in sub fee's, their all under 1 roof, and you pay a flat $25 or whatever the pass is for all the MMO's you want. That way people are more inclined to play, since all it costs is the initial box sale, and not an ongoing sub fee.

[Utnayan]

I am still confused as to why Sony is releasing a product that will hurt Everquest 1/2 more than it will hurt World of Warcraft, but that is an entirely different thread I suppose.

Because it will increase the viability of the all access pass. Something that needs to be done while there is viability left. Star Wars Galaxies, Planetside, and Matrix are not really pulling their weight. If you can add a game like Vanguard that will bring in even 250k subscribers, and they will play EQ2 to boot, the likely hood of them going to the all access pass becomes much greater.

My guess is that Sony is slowly building up games across many genre's in the MMORPG subscription based model to have a game for everyone. But to do that, they will have to have a new framework for the all access pass and for it to become valuable again.

Edit: Beaten.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Erie

Think he means selling boxes when the specs for launch aren't out, not really sure though. Either way, I'm glad they did it, because I know I'm getting it and the pre-order benefit kicks ass for reserving my names.

No I understood his point, it was just a very subtle attempt at a knock against Vangaurd or SOE in general. They have a lot to answer for, but picking on them for giving an incentive to pre order is just plain ole dumb. Pick something from their substantial list of goof ups, it isnt that hard.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Because it will increase the viability of the all access pass. Something that needs to be done while there is viability left. Star Wars Galaxies, Planetside, and Matrix are not really pulling their weight. If you can add a game like Vanguard that will bring in even 250k subscribers, and they will play EQ2 to boot, the likely hood of them going to the all access pass becomes much greater.

My guess is that Sony is slowly building up games across many genre's in the MMORPG subscription based model to have a game for everyone. But to do that, they will have to have a new framework for the all access pass and for it to become valuable again.

Edit: Beaten.

Yeah I figured as much, but playing vangaurd isnt going to give me an incentive to try the "other" games. As is, I will be playing TBC, unless it is a spectacular failure for whatever duration, but the idea of playing a somewhat "new, EQ esque" MMO (what I had hoped EQ2 would be) has me intrigued to at least try and "keep up" just in case it is a good game.

I think it is 15 for an individual sub vs. 20ish for an all access? I will pay the 15, but I might be in the minority on this one.

Edit: Also, I know a lot of people (at one point in time including me) that had the all access pass to begin with when EQ2 broke. Does that mean they are going to increase the price of the all access pass when Vangaurd debuts? Doesnt make much sense to release the game, and just throw it in the all access cat. No profit in it, correct?

[Seths]

Originally Posted by Neric

- snare/slow/mez/fear
Sure there may be these features, but you can bet they are tuned to be 100% harmless aka worthless. This game is not meant to produce overpowered classes, that's why everyone can essentially do the same. Having to face a mob to cast at it pretty much says it all. Does the Vanguard druid play like the EQ1 druid? Does the Vanguard enchanter play like the EQ1 enchanter? Does the Vanguard necro play like the EQ1 necro? Does any Vanguard class play like an EQ1 class? I guess not! Funny thing is, the Vanguard enchanter plays like the CoH Controller and the Vanguard wizard plays like a DAoC wizard and the Vanguard rogue plays like a DAoC rogue too...but that's another story.

- droppable/tradable items*
No drop, bind on pickup...etc. What did I read about the latest "improvements"?

- exp penalty for failure
Obviously they have not figured that out either, 2 months prior to release.


- wizard/druid teleport
- bindspawn
Vanguard has meaningful travel instead, i know...

I was going to reply to your post in detail but Arden pretty much answered them all correctly and better than I could. The ones I did leave quoted I'll just add onto what Arden said.

• The classes are not like EQ and like Arden said why should they be? There are similarities but there are also plenty of things that seperate them from previous incarnations in games. They are also being revamped with 2 being completed (1 getting a little more tweaking), 1 more finished waiting to test, and more on the way. The ones they've put out for testing have been an absolute blast.
  
• The loot stuff / dropable / bop is still being tweaked constantly until they are satisfied. They have plenty of time to get it where they want it to be before release.
  
• The "caves" are not dungeons. They are not supposed to be thought of as dungeons. The actual unique dungeons are great and there are tons of them like Arden said. The caves are just caves where you can exp, quest.
  
• The exp penalty is being tweaked and tested constantly but it is there and it is nothing to laugh at...but 2 months from release? Who told you that? Pre-orders? cause those have always been accurate...They've said it can be anywhere from January 2007-March 2007. I'm betting on March and that is plenty of time to finish up.
  
• I agree I think there should be teleports of some kind but then again if there aren't it's not a big deal.

[Grabbit Allworth]

You're not going to see many of the "premier" dungeons until you get in to your twenties.

[Etadanik]

Originally Posted by Itzena

However, if there's a constant rotation of two of your hypothetical casual blokes for every one like you, companies will rather have a string of said casual guys playing for six months instead of one of you.

Simple economics: Casual Guy will use up less bandwidth, demand less content and make less CS calls...plus every new Casual Guy is a new box sale. And there's more of them.

If all there is to game development is making money, then yeah, you'd be 100% right.

But perhaps that's the problem these days. I have no issues with game companies wanting to make a profit, but when making a profit is the only priority, then there's obviously no place left for those of us who appreciate games for more than as a distraction.

For this reason, I find myself going more and more into the niche/indie scene.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by xmod2

When they implimented PoK it was seen as a game ruining feature to the vocal minority of power gamers, but not to the (more numerous) casual players.

I considered myself a casual eq player back in the day and i hated pok. my highest character was a 51 paladin that was hardly a raider. pok made the game feel like phantasy star online because each zone was just another "room" you can pick from a "lobby".

one of the things i loved most about eq was its travel and pok made it worthless. sure on some nights i wouldnt get to the zone i was hoping to go into i remember having to run from kerra isle to hhk and having to log out at inns here and there because i just didnt have time that night. yeah it was time consuming and frustrating sometimes, but i wouldnt trade those adventures for anything.

[Tolanin]

pok was a poor implementation of a needed feature... eqs travel was stupid and brutal to often. But turning the entire game into a lobby was a terrible idea too... the initial luclin ports were a much better way to do it. Long travel times only suck if the game forces you to constantly travel between areas.. later in EQs life that started to happen and pok was needed... but earlier in the games life where you might spend a month on velious or kunark with no real need to return to the old world it wasnt so bad... once you had to start bouncing between luclin/tov/pop/ldon etc it became a problem. Long travel is fine as long as the game doesnt encourage you to travel constantly to make progress.. case in point, EVE.

[Wizerud]

Originally Posted by Dis

Does that mean they are going to increase the price of the all access pass when Vangaurd debuts? Doesnt make much sense to release the game, and just throw it in the all access cat. No profit in it, correct?

Well, you still have to buy the game itself. I think Sony just saw it as a good opportunity to keep gamers within their fold once Vanguard is released, as others have stated.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Dis

I am still confused as to why Sony is releasing a product that will hurt Everquest 1/2 more than it will hurt World of Warcraft, but that is an entirely different thread I suppose.

One thing you guys missed on this, is that the costs of Sony releasing it are almost nil as they already have the infrastructure to do it. And if they dont do it, someone else will and they will lose out anyway. So, they really have nothing to lose.
Check out the plethora of games being released on steam these days. Zero cost, plus a small distribution fee equals free money.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by vynde

I considered myself a casual eq player back in the day and i hated pok. my highest character was a 51 paladin that was hardly a raider. pok made the game feel like phantasy star online because each zone was just another "room" you can pick from a "lobby".

one of the things i loved most about eq was its travel and pok made it worthless. sure on some nights i wouldnt get to the zone i was hoping to go into i remember having to run from kerra isle to hhk and having to log out at inns here and there because i just didnt have time that night. yeah it was time consuming and frustrating sometimes, but i wouldnt trade those adventures for anything.

I dont know about you, but I had a heck of a time getting around in EQ1, having printed out maps of the zones and putting them in binders by continent (don't go there, this was 1999, dial up, and some shitty 64mb ram computer). It took a long, long time for me to learn the paths from one place to another, zone wise, and to learn the zones themselves.

And while it was frustrating at times, it really did make the world more immersive, and there definately was a real sense of accomplishment once I had it all down pat.

What took the bloom off the rose was POK, it trivialized all that effort, and while convenient, it was a huge let down. Adios that right of passage in learning your way around a world without maps in game.

I don't mind either system now, but I do mind when fucktard devs change shit in such a major way so far into the game.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by rinthea

One thing you guys missed on this, is that the costs of Sony releasing it are almost nil as they already have the infrastructure to do it. And if they dont do it, someone else will and they will lose out anyway. So, they really have nothing to lose.
Check out the plethora of games being released on steam these days. Zero cost, plus a small distribution fee equals free money.

I can assure you, speaking in terms of bandwidth alone, the cost is far from zero. They dont have to invent the wheel, granted, but its going to cost them plenty to pump this game out.

PS: There is noone else who can or will do it at this point, unless Richard Branson or maybe Warren Buffet suddenly become MMOG junkies.