Lots of new Vanguard info released, plus videos & screenshots

[Erie]

Originally Posted by vynde

if you look at eq and swg they have tried to wow-ify them. so why wouldnt they do that for vg too?

What have they tried to wow-ify? What exactly did wow invent in the first place? Or by wow-ify, do you mean, make as easy as possible.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Erie

What have they tried to wow-ify? What exactly did wow invent in the first place? Or by wow-ify, do you mean, make as easy as possible.

swg has talents. they're called expertise, but even one of the dev posters accidently referred to them as talents heh

[Xaxius]

Originally Posted by Erie

What have they tried to wow-ify? What exactly did wow invent in the first place? Or by wow-ify, do you mean, make as easy as possible.

He means anything which might give the impression of being easier. Because if it's easier it must be "wow-ified"... regardless of whether it's a conscience design decision or it makes the game more fun to play. Heaven forbid.

[Erie]

Originally Posted by vynde

swg has talents. they're called expertise, but even one of the dev posters accidently referred to them as talents heh

Nm.. I was interpreting that you thought vanguard was turning into wow..

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Xaxius

He means anything which might give the impression of being easier. Because if it's easier it must be "wow-ified"... regardless of whether it's a conscience design decision or it makes the game more fun to play. Heaven forbid.

hey thanks for putting words in my mouth! its not making it easier, because eq is still some what difficult. since you guys are all jumping down my throat about what i said, i guess i have no choice but to explain.

alright lets take swg. like i said, now they have talents, boe/bop equipment, and it has been watered down to 9 classes. battlegrounds are also being put in. world pvp is dying since everyone cares about getting their swg honor points.

in eq, its just a feel of wow. its coming from the UI, the design of quests, and the fact that you pretty much have to solo. in eq its more intangible than it is with swg, but the feeling is there

Originally Posted by Erie

Nm.. I was interpreting that you thought vanguard was turning into wow..

you never know what it CAN turn into in the future, but what im saying is that they're implementing more and more features straight out of wow. the altar system and the boe/bop are the ones that come to mind. the minimap and etc i can live with.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by vynde

in eq, its just a feel of wow. its coming from the UI, the design of quests, and the fact that you pretty much have to solo. in eq its more intangible than it is with swg, but the feeling is there

And the increased regen with the latest expansion, of course. I expect rested xp with the next, to be honest.

[Eomer]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that SOE can't exert influence over VG. Obviously they can. I'm just saying that it's not as dire of a situation as some people would like to make it out to be.

I could be wrong, Smed might be rolling up his shirt sleeves as we speak and digging into the spell DB to fuck over sorcerors (mages).

[Grabbit Allworth]

Originally Posted by vynde

my logic is this: why should i spend $50, level up all over again, put up with bugs, and probably upgrade my system when i can just go back to wow? wow clones suck, end of discussion. why should i go to a clone when the original is bigger and better?

now...if vg has alternet ruleset servers where they'd have CRs, no minimaps, etc, count me in.

I'm not trying to sell VG to you or anyone else. I couldn't care less if you play it. If you like it, great. If you don't, no problem. I don't have a vested interest in the company. Of course I'd like to see Sigil succeed, but it's because I want to play their game.

My posts here concerning VG have always been about what I (emphasize I) like and dislike about the game and also to do my part so that the readers here get an objective take on the game from someone who can be impartial.

That being said.

VG isn't a WoW clone. The two games are totally different experiences.

Do they have similarities? Yes, of course they do. It's absurd to think that MMORPG's aren't going to share some basic design concepts. Especially ones of the same general genre (Fantasy).

I don't know about you, but I play games for fun. If the game isn't fun, I don't play it. VG isn't going to be any different. It just so happens I like the game, a lot. It still has a long way to go, but most of my gripes have to do with aesthetics. Like large tracts of landscape although beautiful to look at are all too often devoid of creatures and the few you do run across rarely path or move. While I partially appreciate the "realism" that there isn't going to be a "sand gecko" every 15 feet it's frustrating to run around for 2 or 3 minutes to find something to grind xp on. Of course not all areas are like this, but there are still far too many that are.

I pray that this is one of the things Brad was talking about in that Dev letter referring to "adding more content".

The games core mechanics are in place, solid, and fun. The game just needs to be tuned, polished, and debugged. If they release in late March I think they've got plenty of time to polish the game into a state that will satisfy the majority of those interested in it to begin with. A year after release VG is going to be a truly fantastic game. I couldn't care less if they need my money to "finish" their game.

It boils down to two things.

#1. Is the game good enough for me to pay for it? If it is, I will, if not, I won't. It's pretty simple don't you think?

#2. MMORPG's are stupidly expensive to make, especially good ones that meet the ever increasing demands of the player base. I'm a bit more forgiving because while the quality (and production costs) of the games continue to improve, the cost to play them (which is a STEAL) has remained fairly consistent.

With two phases of Beta left before release I can understand that things like mobs disappearing in combat, world geometry/collision issues, and a bullshit ass spell particle system (which is slated to be redone, thank God) that gives little to no visual indication that you're being cast on so you aren't able to react appropriately in combat are still not functioning properly.

There are a few parts of the UI that are absolutely freaking maddening to me too. If you're a Dev for Sigil and you happen to read this. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD code something that allows me to resize and move the tool tip pop up box where I want the damn thing. I can count 3 times I have quit a session because I was so tired of fighting with it. The option of tying it to the ALT button is garbage. While that may work for most things it's not practical when I'm trying to con mobs. Tying it to your cursor is a little better, but presents a lot of the same problems. Please, please, please just let me size it and put it where I want it..................

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Basically, SOE can't issue an ultimatum to SGO about a design decision and expect them to follow through automatically, because SGO could just pick up their ball and leave.

That would be a sweet move for them right now too! Hell, I wish they would do it. Maybe they could move on to Vivendi or someone next.

[Rythonn]

Originally Posted by vynde

alright lets take swg. like i said, now they have talents, boe/bop equipment, and it has been watered down to 9 classes. battlegrounds are also being put in. world pvp is dying since everyone cares about getting their swg honor points.

in eq, its just a feel of wow. its coming from the UI, the design of quests, and the fact that you pretty much have to solo. in eq its more intangible than it is with swg, but the feeling is there

And none of this, except battlegrounds, was created by WoW.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

And none of this, except battlegrounds, was created by WoW.

honor points in the battle ground instances, talent points done like WoW, and the dramatic change to everything boe/bop. hell even the UI was changed to something more wow-y. PLAY the game instead of theorizing about it

[Pharazon]

The WoW talent point system is very similar to the DAoC spec point system; it was nothing new.

DAoC also created the whole battleground idea with level ranges and the ability to earn points in them. WoW just improved upon them by making them more team / goal oriented.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Pharazon

The WoW talent point system is very similar to the DAoC spec point system; it was nothing new.

DAoC also created the whole battleground idea with level ranges and the ability to earn points in them. WoW just improved upon them by making them more team / goal oriented.

I actually skipped DAoC, did they have their BG's instanced too ?

[holymight]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

And none of this, except battlegrounds, was created by WoW.

Pretty sure SWG has battlegrounds at release. They were really buggy and stupid, but you could walk into an instanced version of them. They had a force field around them. I once entered one but nobody was inside so I completed it myself. They were pretty stupid.

[Itzena]

Yes, but WoW was the first MMOG for a lot of people...and also the first western one to make business-types sit up, take notice and go "Holy mother of fuck, money hats for all!"